Frontier pilots vote to SAVE the airline!!

[GuppyWN]

Gup if you are so worried about your BROTHERS then lets change the age limit back to 60 so your BROTHERS can have a chance to pay their bills. Those over 60 guys are taking jobs from there BROTHERS...yada yada yada....

The pilots of Southwest voted whether to spend dues money to support the Age 65 push. I voted NO. Didn't care for the arbitrary age change. The vote passed, ALPA got onboard and we now retire at 65. Do I like it? Nope. BUT I ACCEPT IT. IMO, that's an example of unity.

As far as your dumping on new guys. Wow man, where to start. I'll keep it short and simple.

Do you know what I call the very last dude on our seniority list? Brother. He earned his shot, got hired and now wears the same ID badge I do. I would give him every rite and priveledge that I would the #1 pilot on the list. If he were to get furloughed I would want to see him back in the cockpit sitting beside me as soon as possible and would do everything ethically possible to do so sooner rather than later. He is a fellow employee and part of my extended family, not a shock absorber.

Gup

 

[Nindiri]

Just curious; how, exactly, are we punishing the company by forcing them to fill a cockpit seat by juniormanning some guy that had other plans with his family instead of filling it with some more junior guy that actually wants to work because he needs the money to make his house payment?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The problem isn't pilots working for cheap, it is because tools like you don't give a shi t and don't work to raise first and second year pay...

Take my 2 cents back....Nice

Well then why is that I keep voting to not take a paycut, but most of the junior guys are?

Because you can't afford it... you are living at or beyond your means... and you know there are plenty of fodder junior pilots below you that will take the hit before you do.... simply put, you have the luxury of choosing to vote no.

The junior guys are voting for a paycut because they are trying to avoid a 100% paycut...

How do you know what I have done?

Only by what you've said on this thread..

I have tried many times and this is how I realized how there is no brotherhood and nothing will change the way were doing it right now.

What have you done?

Most of the pilots hired within the last few years didn't pay enough dues to want enough. They are just worried about keeping there job over what they are paid.

And that is ethically wrong? in what way?

You are an wait, I'm better then that. I respect your ideas but don't agree.

Fair enough..... and unfortunate it....

 

[regionaltard]

Just curious; how, exactly, are we punishing the company by forcing them to fill a cockpit seat by juniormanning some guy that had other plans with his family instead of filling it with some more junior guy that actually wants to work because he needs the money to make his house payment?

Because getting junior manned makes it impossible for people to say "it's OK, because it's not me that's getting abused." At some point hopefully people wake up and say "enough is enough." Even more important is the message sent by a pilot group that speaks with one voice. Unfortunately in this case that voice seems to be saying "screw those guys on the street, I'm looking out for number 1."

As much as people try to rationalize it, voluntarily picking up extra flying hurts furloughed pilots. Period.

 

[Dizel8]

Hard to be junior manned if you don't answer the phone!

Of course, they could snag you in the jetway, in which case, stuff happens.

 

[PCL_128]

Just curious; how, exactly, are we punishing the company by forcing them to fill a cockpit seat by juniormanning some guy that had other plans with his family instead of filling it with some more junior guy that actually wants to work because he needs the money to make his house payment?

I don't know about Frontier, but some companies only pay straight time for pick-ups, but have to pay premium pay for junior-assignments.

 

[Cardinal]

1.25 to pick up over 82 hours.
1.5 for a juniorman.

 

[Nindiri]

I don't know about Frontier, but some companies only pay straight time for pick-ups, but have to pay premium pay for junior-assignments.

A valid point, no doubt, but it seems to me that it punishes the wrong people. It's chump change to the company, but important to a lot of pilots. A lot of guys on second year FO pay need that money a lot more than the senior FO who gets juniormanned for 1.5 times pay. And it leads to a lot of unfortunate infighting, like the guy who picked up one leg in Oct and is now getting hammered over it.

No matter; hopefully everyone will be back soon and it will be a moot point.

 

[milky]

Really!!! It's that attitude that makes it seem that way.

Tell that to;

1- The CAL pilot that went back to flt 1404 and helped the other injured crewmembers off the aircraft.

2- The 147 furloughed pilots at CAL that are receiving health benefits reimbursement from their fellow pilot brothers and sisters.

3- The 147 furloughed pilots at CAL that were sent a very generous Christmas present from their fellow pilot brothers and sisters.

I'm sure with your attitude, you would have been all over these programs, NOT!!! Do us all a favor, leave the industry and go into an industry that is all about you!!! Try politics...

Yogi

You guys are so funny to watch. I feel good about myself because I made a difference. The world works on incentive. You guys are your own downfall with the, "nobody's better, we're all brothers in the same union" BS. Some people want to work the minimum, and some people want to work the maximum allowed. That is their business. If the business doesn't support both of you, then somebody has to leave. Unfortunately, since your union doesn't let you differentiate among yourselves, you are all just numbers in the system. So, the only way to know who should go is to cut out the bottom instead of cutting out the least efficient or least willing to try to make money for the company (which is your job).

I personally know two of the 147 furloughed CAL guys. They are both making over $100,000 this year. One found such lucrative flight related work, he will never be back to an airline even if he is recalled at the greatly enticing 2nd year pay. One of the two was so excited to hear about furloughs coming because he knew he could gain seniority while free to go out and earn a real paycheck. But, I'm sure they are glad that you are taking money out of your little paychecks to pay their health insurance and send them a Christmas bonus.

Ahhh. Socialism...

First to call me a member of management or a scab gets $1,000,000! Oh, nobody would do that at the cost of having an intelligent conversation, so I know my money is safe.

 

[check6]

OK. I'll engage without rhetoric and namecalling.

Every hour you fly over your awarded line is keeping your furoughed brothers and sisters without a job. You say the company will "just assign to reserves." GOOD. That uses them up. When there is nothing left "they'll just JA" somebody. Even better. You see, that gives your union something to work with. When you guys pick up like nothing is going on, guess what? The GO thinks nothing is going on. When you force them to properly staff the airline they will recall.

Is it a sacrifice? You bet it is. Would I fly my line if my brothers and sisters were on the street? You bet your arse I would.

I will not apologize for getting tourqed at you. You deserve a lesson in brotherhood and making sacrifices that are good for the whole, not just good for you.

It's called unity. You should try it sometime.

Gup

Very well put. I think more of the younger pilots need to learn this. This is not to say the younger guys are any more clueless than the older guys, but I would say more so it just comes from inexperience. There seems to be such a disconnect with how a pilot group, with or without a union, can force management to take the most economically viable option.

I also agree, as several of you have posted towards the beginning of the thread, that paycuts do not work! If management is asking for paycuts, it just shows they aren't doing their job well enough.