Frontier Pilots approve concessions 498-58

[Tomct]

Good Luck Frontier guys/gals. I hope it works out for you. BB is a total dirt bag!

 

[labbats]

I always liked Frontier. Too bad they've been through the worst during the past few years. I hope we're all wrong and this works out for you all. Not too often you see that much pride in an airline.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Good Luck Frontier guys/gals. I hope it works out for you. BB is a total dirt bag!

And F9 Capts. are making $40 an hour more than yours are. I guess "dirt bag" is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[waveflyer]

Probably so, but what the winners of a long, costly war fear most is having to re-fight the whole thing, and maybe lose this time. It's hard to mobilize support and sacrifice against new and even worse threats which are but dimly perceived and appear to be safely outside your castle wall.

Well all the VA, USAIR, applicants are primed to accept those wages bc it IS a step up from their RJ capt gig. There's a reason 2nd year pay is roughly junior RJ capt pay....

It's chess, not checkers. I don't disagree that that's going on Tom- and I won't place you in that category, but isn't that last line of yours a perfect summation of baby-boomer Econ policy in general, an almost flawless example set in the airlines?-
"as long as I don't have to pay, I do not care, but I will violently oppose any long term solution that makes me pay 1 dime towards the long term good, even if I lose more over time bc I've weakened the foundation"

(tired of myopia...chess, not checkers....think long term- it's what counts)

 

[tomgoodman]

... isn't that last line of yours a perfect summation of baby-boomer Econ policy in general, an almost flawless example set in the airlines?-

It was intended as an observation about human nature, neither critical nor defensive of any particular age cohort. Generational chauvinism is an error, as the '60s hippies found out when they grew up.

 

[Tomct]

And F9 Capts. are making $40 an hour more than yours are. I guess "dirt bag" is in the eye of the beholder.

Actually they make $4 hr more than I do, but thanks for trying! And hey, way to try and hijack the thread.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Actually they make $4 hr more than I do, but thanks for trying! And hey, way to try and hijack the thread.

According to APC, today a senior F9 Captain is making $156.
According to APC, today your senior Captain is making $115.

Looks like you need some remedial math, Ace.

Oh and P.S....

Did you ever ask yourself WHY BB could demand concessions from F9 pilots and get them? Its because both parties know he can get people like you to fly their 'Buses for $115 an hour. You prove it every day you go to work.

Chew on that awhile.

 

[StopNTSing]

SWA dragged down this profession for Decades. Everybody knows this. Just because they get paid well NOW doesn't mean the damage wasn't done. A smug SWA guy bitching about another pilot group lowering the bar is absolutely laughable.

Would you like to deal in the here & now, or are you one of the many around here who prefer to dwell in the past?

I'm sorry if my comment seemed flip and offended you or others, but we've all seen this movie and it never ends well. Appeasing management like BB is like trying to appease an alligator. All you buy is a little time....he'll keep coming back for more if he thinks you'll give it. Pilot costs have never shut down an airline, and pilot concessions have never saved one either. Best of luck F9 dudes, you're between a rock and a hard place through no fault of your own. But give-backs aren't going to help at this point.

 

[carl p]

Would you like to deal in the here & now, or are you one of the many around here who prefer to dwell in the past?

I'm sorry if my comment seemed flip and offended you or others, but we've all seen this movie and it never ends well. Appeasing management like BB is like trying to appease an alligator. All you buy is a little time....he'll keep coming back for more if he thinks you'll give it. Pilot costs have never shut down an airline, and pilot concessions have never saved one either. Best of luck F9 dudes, you're between a rock and a hard place through no fault of your own. But give-backs aren't going to help at this point.

Been there. He is right, your concessions will have no factor in whether you ultimately succeed or fail as a company. Best of luck F9!

 

[waveflyer]

It was intended as an observation about human nature, neither critical nor defensive of any particular age cohort. Generational chauvinism is an error, as the '60s hippies found out when they grew up.

It's only as accurate as any broad generalization- but overall- look around and see the state of the country. The teenage 60's hippies are who I'm talking about.
Greatest generation gave birth to the most short sighted and selfish.

 

[realityman]

Pilot costs have never shut down an airline, and pilot concessions have never saved one either.

Wisest words on here, hands down!

It happens, without fail, EVERY time. Management says, "We need concessions or else we'll have to furlough.". So the pilots give concessions, and what happens, usually within a few months of the concessions? Furloughs.

Management says "The ship is sinking, and will continue to do so without concessions.". So the pilots give concessions, and what happens? The ship sinks anyway and a bunch of pilots find themselves receiving final paychecks significantly less than what they started at.

I feel sorry for those Frontier pilots. Pretty raw deal. But they just made a very bad move. A quick review of airline history in this regard would have been illuminating, but instead they have chosen to repeat the same sad history.

Good luck guys! I truly hope it works out. But history is not on your side.

 

[tomgoodman]

It's only as accurate as any broad generalization- but overall- look around and see the state of the country. The teenage 60's hippies are who I'm talking about.
Greatest generation gave birth to the most short sighted and selfish.

Sure, that's how it looks to you, but the hippies thought it was the previous generation that was short sighted, selfish, warlike, and stupid. Then they proceeded to become exactly what they had denounced. Fortunately, the upcoming generation will be different, because this time they are really really sincere. Right.

 

[ChinaClipper]

The profession?

Thanks for defending the Profession.

I think Frontier is NOT exactly killing the "profession" BTW Check you Mic, I have been at work for two days and in the Airport I have gotten NUMEROUS comments on just what goes on in the cockpit from the traveling public, its getting embarrassing defending YOUR company...your welcome....

 

[StopNTSing]

I think Frontier is NOT exactly killing the "profession"

Whenever pilots from ANY airline (SWA included) agree to concessions, that is damaging the "profession." Not really that hard to comprehend, is it?

BTW Check you Mic, I have been at work for two days and in the Airport I have gotten NUMEROUS comments on just what goes on in the cockpit from the traveling public, its getting embarrassing defending YOUR company...your welcome....

Yawn. I still get asked by passengers if I'm sober, if I'm using my laptop in the cockpit, if I know how to recover from a stall, if I fly naked, etc....etc...etc... Welcome to one of the most regulated, highest-visibility jobs in the world.....and it has it's share of knuckleheads. Get used to it.

 

[tzskipper]

And F9 Capts. are making $40 an hour more than yours are. I guess "dirt bag" is in the eye of the beholder.

To split the hair, the difference is $4.00/hr for a four year Captain.

S