Frontier Pilots approve concessions 498-58

[realityman]

Pilot costs have never shut down an airline, and pilot concessions have never saved one either.

Wisest words on here, hands down!

It happens, without fail, EVERY time. Management says, "We need concessions or else we'll have to furlough.". So the pilots give concessions, and what happens, usually within a few months of the concessions? Furloughs.

Management says "The ship is sinking, and will continue to do so without concessions.". So the pilots give concessions, and what happens? The ship sinks anyway and a bunch of pilots find themselves receiving final paychecks significantly less than what they started at.

I feel sorry for those Frontier pilots. Pretty raw deal. But they just made a very bad move. A quick review of airline history in this regard would have been illuminating, but instead they have chosen to repeat the same sad history.

Good luck guys! I truly hope it works out. But history is not on your side.

 

[tomgoodman]

It's only as accurate as any broad generalization- but overall- look around and see the state of the country. The teenage 60's hippies are who I'm talking about.
Greatest generation gave birth to the most short sighted and selfish.

Sure, that's how it looks to you, but the hippies thought it was the previous generation that was short sighted, selfish, warlike, and stupid. Then they proceeded to become exactly what they had denounced. Fortunately, the upcoming generation will be different, because this time they are really really sincere. Right.

 

[ChinaClipper]

The profession?

Thanks for defending the Profession.

I think Frontier is NOT exactly killing the "profession" BTW Check you Mic, I have been at work for two days and in the Airport I have gotten NUMEROUS comments on just what goes on in the cockpit from the traveling public, its getting embarrassing defending YOUR company...your welcome....

 

[StopNTSing]

I think Frontier is NOT exactly killing the "profession"

Whenever pilots from ANY airline (SWA included) agree to concessions, that is damaging the "profession." Not really that hard to comprehend, is it?

BTW Check you Mic, I have been at work for two days and in the Airport I have gotten NUMEROUS comments on just what goes on in the cockpit from the traveling public, its getting embarrassing defending YOUR company...your welcome....

Yawn. I still get asked by passengers if I'm sober, if I'm using my laptop in the cockpit, if I know how to recover from a stall, if I fly naked, etc....etc...etc... Welcome to one of the most regulated, highest-visibility jobs in the world.....and it has it's share of knuckleheads. Get used to it.

 

[tzskipper]

And F9 Capts. are making $40 an hour more than yours are. I guess "dirt bag" is in the eye of the beholder.

To split the hair, the difference is $4.00/hr for a four year Captain.

S

 

[richav8ter]

Everybody seems caught up on the wage part of this agreement. LOA 67 is all about remaining separate from the IBT and ensuring (hehe) growth at Frontier. The wage and benefit tradeoffs are minor and worth the cost if FAPA can wreak the SLI. I think the language is to vague to rely on IMHO.

 

[USMC319]

Richav8ter,
You hit it on the head. This never had anything to do with wages. It has everything to do with undoing the seniority grab by the 357 (IBT) leadership. If there were a flow through like every other mainline/regional owned by the same holding company, then none of this would have had to happen. But it is what it is and the F9 pilots will fight till the death of the company to break away from the RAH group. Maybe SWA will come in and make another offer and we (collectively) won't f-it up this time.

 

[richav8ter]

The NMB has ruled that BB's effort to have the representation election stop has no merit.

 

[terryhfly]

The NMB has ruled that BB's effort to have the representation election stop has no merit.

Source?

 

[blott]

38 NMB No. 55

 

[stratus72]

You give them 2 years?!?! 12 months tops.

Explain this in detail, genius. You clearly know far more than all the experts involved with the restructuring.

 

[SizzleChest]

The NMB has ruled that BB's effort to have the representation election stop has no merit.

Get a load of that FAPA!!!!.... really think you are gonna get RPC or the STS overturned???? hah!!

 

[stratus72]

Get a load of that FAPA!!!!.... really think you are gonna get RPC or the STS overturned???? hah!!

I don't know a single Frontier pilot who truly thought we would get the NMB decision overturned. In fact, many of us thought IBT had a very strong rebuttal to FAPA's motion. It was simply a "what do we have to lose" scenario...nothing at this point. Having said that, there is still a reasonable chance that we will eventually be purchased (51%) by an investor(s). Then the SLI will be no more. If not, many of us will likely move on before the 7 year fence comes down. So, I'm hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst. A lot of hiring will happen in a year or two.

 

[freightrash]

Just give that up and get out of there before 7 year fence hits! Isnt that simple?

 

[chqflyer]

Get a load of that FAPA!!!!.... really think you are gonna get RPC or the STS overturned???? hah!!

I might be just a bit off base, but don't you think that kind of gloating might have a little something to do with F9 pilots hating our guts? A little thing called Karma has a red bullseye right on our backs, especially with BB's misadventures playing airline CEO.

 

[$$$4nothin]

Explain this in detail, genius. You clearly know far more than all the experts involved with the restructuring.

Most likely due to the fact that on the RAH side we are so drastically under staffed that 10-15 flights are cancelleing daily. We just don't see how this place can keep the doors open (staffing wise) for more that 12 months. Especially with the amount of attrition that is going on over here. Its 20-30 pilots a month btw. Or that based on the amount of cash on hand, and the 30+ million dollar per quarter losses we will be broke in a year unless there is a drastic turn change. Again we don't see that. The bus side might be different but the RAH side is implodeing on itself. I saw 2 flights cancel personally before 6 am this morning because there were no captains. It is very ugly over here.

 

[stratus72]

Most likely due to the fact that on the RAH side we are so drastically under staffed that 10-15 flights are cancelleing daily. We just don't see how this place can keep the doors open (staffing wise) for more that 12 months. Especially with the amount of attrition that is going on over here. Its 20-30 pilots a month btw. Or that based on the amount of cash on hand, and the 30+ million dollar per quarter losses we will be broke in a year unless there is a drastic turn change. Again we don't see that. The bus side might be different but the RAH side is implodeing on itself. I saw 2 flights cancel personally before 6 am this morning because there were no captains. It is very ugly over here.

The entire machine is broken...I hope both sides turn things around.

 

[SizzleChest]

I might be just a bit off base, but don't you think that kind of gloating might have a little something to do with F9 pilots hating our guts? A little thing called Karma has a red bullseye right on our backs, especially with BB's misadventures playing airline CEO.

Not really. Not when they agreed to binding arbitration and then fight the SLI outcome. Every chance they get they try to throw a wrench in the works. Now that IBT won, RAH guys wonder "What will FAPA try next?" Remember that part of the RPC that said they would try hard to implement the SLI by dropping lawsuits or something to that effect? They just won't man up and stand by their word.

 

[stratus72]

Not really. Not when they agreed to binding arbitration and then fight the SLI outcome. Every chance they get they try to throw a wrench in the works. Now that IBT won, RAH guys wonder "What will FAPA try next?" Remember that part of the RPC that said they would try hard to implement the SLI by dropping lawsuits or something to that effect? They just won't man up and stand by their word.

What about all the crap the IBT pulled on us? You actually believe they wouldn't have done the same thing if they were in our position? Get a clue! Now they want our FAPA war chest...millions of dollars that we the pilot group contributed. What a bunch thugs. I'm glad you guys are "wondering" what we have up our sleeves. ;-) I'm absolutely embarrassed to be associated with pilots with your attitude and the IBT.

 

[SizzleChest]

What about all the crap FAPA pulled and continues to pull? RPC? (for a start) i can't tell you what they would have done but I would have expected it to be reasonable just like the SLI proposal which was closest to the award issued. They may or may not have done the same thing but it doesn't matter now. You people made your deals and you have to live up to your end of the deal whatever it may be. I'd love to dump my house but I signed a paper that said i would pay for it. i have regretted signing on the bottom line for things in the past but i still carry it out. IBT will now have costs incurred representing the former FAPA guys and I think it would be reasonable to tap your war chest for the relevant expenses. it's not like they are buying new cars with FAPA cash. They have to pay for the lanyards they will send somehow! (joke) hopefully you will be required to report to the IBT EXCO for your actions from this point on to ensure the Unity, One List/One Voice/One Contract we all have to have! You're embarassed for us? the feeling is mutual sir. But, then again, you never really wanted to be associated with us anyhow.... so I assume that sentence was entered in error.