Frontier Jumpseat/republic

[SizzleChest]

she will enjoy unemployment while some guys move up the list one.....

 

[ChinaClipper]

Hmnnn......

What ever happened to working for your seat? I was under the impression NO ONE at RAH wanted a crummy old Airbus seat anyway? Except for the old dudes that couldn't find a way out of RAH for 15 plus years....tactical decisions I hear...

 

[embraerjetpilot]

China Clipper...

We just dont want to see a mainline version of Go Jets or freedom 1. Thats what you have created.

Unfortunate to see the frontier pilots collaborate to create such a thing, because that would make them comparable to the original freedom pilots.

 

[Bolo]

China Clipper...

We just dont want to see a mainline version of Go Jets or freedom 1. Thats what you have created.

Unfortunate to see the frontier pilots collaborate to create such a thing, because that would make them comparable to the original freedom pilots.

Don't worry you won't! As you RAH Bro's and Sis's have been saying from day one"we don't care to fly the Airbus". It is coming soon and you will get your wish. Remember the majority of the losses that F9 was showing was from the RJ's as the APES software was showing.

About your Freedom comparison, you are really stretching there and have to do better than that.

Your union (and ours for the moment) the IBT has been the WORST union I have ever been affiliated with. You really need to worry about your own contract and move forward without F9 being in the picture.

I believe that the integrity of your seniority list should stay with RAH pilots while the F9 list should stay with F9 pilots. Not something given by an arbitrator. We are comparing Apples to Oranges here and do not kid yourselves that we are not.

Good luck to you and all of us in the future.

 

[embraerjetpilot]

Not a stretch at all... In fact worse because you conspired with management to affect another airlines contract negotiations.

 

[Bolo]

Not a stretch at all... In fact worse because you conspired with management to affect another airlines contract negotiations.

Do you really think we want FO rates at 37HR. Yeah right! A lot of your Captains makes less than our FO's. We are comparing Apples to Oranges. Do not blame your problems of getting a negotiated contract on F9. Your(OUR) Union for the moment has been totally ineffective at negotiating. If you want to call strong arming negotiating then you guys are doing a brilliant job.
Instead of reeling off BS, which you do frequently, I would be concentrating on getting a new contract without F9 in the picture.

 

[chqflyer]

Do you really think we want FO rates at 37HR. Yeah right! A lot of your Captains makes less than our FO's. We are comparing Apples to Oranges. Do not blame your problems of getting a negotiated contract on F9. Your(OUR) Union for the moment has been totally ineffective at negotiating. If you want to call strong arming negotiating then you guys are doing a brilliant job.
Instead of reeling off BS, which you do frequently, I would be concentrating on getting a new contract without F9 in the picture.

Before this devolves into a total hate-fest, where do you guys get your info about what go's on over here in rj land? The earlier corrupt and ineffective IBT has been tossed out and the current group has been rebuilding from the left over steaming pile of ********************.
BB and friends have two distinct faces, the one they show you and the one we have to deal with. Over here in rj land, we are seen as nothing more than migrant seasonal labor. There is no negotiating in good faith with this company when they see us as nothing more than expendable garbage. "Playing nice" would amount to simply rolling over and accepting a Mesa -25% CBA. I guess that should be alright since the boss man says this is only a stepping stone anyways.
Not trying to start another pissing fest, but you folks have no clue about some of the demeaning working conditions over here in rj land. Just read the tone of some of our company memos. I'd show you some of the doozy's but showing a super-secret company memo to an outsider is grounds for immediate termination.

 

[OpenClimb]

Actually, chqflyer, MANY of us *do* have a pretty good idea "about some of the demeaning working conditions over [there] in rj land."

This is a significant breakdown in *your* understanding of *our* position in this whole mess. Most of us have been there and done that. Personally, I progressed through 2 fee for departure carriers before being hired at Frontier. Yes, I worked for Jonathan Ornstein. You can't tell me much about crappy regional working conditions that I haven't already experienced first hand.

I never expected to fly an Airbus or a Boeing when I went to Mesa *without first* quitting my job, successfully interviewing for a new job, resigning my seniority, sitting reserve, etc.

I just want to keep the job I worked for. What are you looking for?

 

[embraerjetpilot]

Open climb... The funny thing as that we have been working so that you guys have a job.. Not that I want your job..

Maybe if your leadership had been working in your interests instead of trying to protect their 30000 dollar stipends....

 

[embraerjetpilot]

And unfortunately f9 will be in the picture...as an alter ego

 

[chqflyer]

Actually, chqflyer, MANY of us *do* have a pretty good idea "about some of the demeaning working conditions over [there] in rj land."

This is a significant breakdown in *your* understanding of *our* position in this whole mess. Most of us have been there and done that. Personally, I progressed through 2 fee for departure carriers before being hired at Frontier. Yes, I worked for Jonathan Ornstein. You can't tell me much about crappy regional working conditions that I haven't already experienced first hand.

I never expected to fly an Airbus or a Boeing when I went to Mesa *without first* quitting my job, successfully interviewing for a new job, resigning my seniority, sitting reserve, etc.

I just want to keep the job I worked for. What are you looking for?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not at all interested in "stealing" your job. I've been around long enough to know the rules of play as far as career progression. 99% of the folks in rj land are simply biding their time until a better job comes along. That doesn't mean we have to be happy with being treated like crap while here. There's no shame in trying to improve ones working conditions. Ideally, once real airlines start hiring again, most regionals will go away. Where are they going to find the warm bodies to fill the seats?

 

[USMC319]

Open climb... The funny thing as that we have been working so that you guys have a job.. Not that I want your job..QUOTE]

NO. You've been working to earn a paycheck at a regional airline for services tendered. Period. Your job is fly other airline's passengers around for a fee. When you were hired at RAH, they told you how much they would pay you for each hour you worked. You agreed to that deal and signed on.

You have NOT been working to finance any corporate transaction that your holding company chose to pursue. If your precious IBT wanted an ownership stake in the company they would have negotiated that for you. But they didn't. And it appears they haven't nogotiated anything else for you either. The best they can do is claim that they stole a bunch of seniority numbers for you on a list that will soon be irrelevant.

What the company does with their corporate profits has nothing to do with you or what you think you deserve. Go out and earn your way on your own. Do it the way the rest of us did. Quit looking for a free ride. You will feel better about yourself and have a sense of accomplishment instead of shame, like you would if you took something that wasn't yours. None of us has control of our management's business decisions, so do what you can control and earn your own way in life.

 

[USMC319]

And unfortunately f9 will be in the picture...as an alter ego

Boy, are you on drugs? The things that you write are such a departure from reality that its hard to tell if you're just not very bright or if you merely have an irrational view of the industry and the world. Flying 162 seat mainline jets for a major airline would certainly be the ultimate "alter ego" to pull on a 50 seat fee for departure outfit. You're right.

 

[Toobdrvr]

I guess that should be alright since the boss man says this is only a stepping stone anyways.

99% of the folks in rj land are simply biding their time until a better job comes along.

Then it sounds like you're in agreement...

 

[chqflyer]

Then it sounds like you're in agreement...

My boss man comment was sarcasm. BB built this behemoth of an operation yet insists on running it like some fly by night south Florida operation. Well ******************** that. There really is no excuse for anyone flying passengers for a living to have to put up with such ********************ty pay and work rules. Having the manager of scheduling telling reserve pilots that they have no contractual protections because "the company owns you" is bull********************. That kind of crap is just not acceptable. It never should have been acceptable. Quite frankly, the "if you don't like it, quit" bull******************** is getting quite old too. This place should have never grown into what it's become, but there is no excuse for not trying to improve things.

 

[Farscape]

This is what I know. There is a legally binding seniority list. No one stole anything. RAH purchased Frontier and the IBT had the legal right to merge the lists. Frontier pilots are protected for 7 years. No Frontier pilot is losing there equipment or base. If I am still here in 7 years or whenever all F9 fo's have upgraded it is my legal right to bid an airbus CA position. I'm sorry if this doesn't fit the normal career progression. F9 is protected and RAH gets to pick up the leftovers when all of you get what you want. Relax and let it go.

 

[USMC319]

Fortunately for the Frontier pilots, that scenerio will never play out. But just for the sake of arguement, don't you think it would be a bit of an overstatement to say that the F9 guys would be "protected"? After seven years any FO that hadn't upgraded yet would be stagnant for the rest of his/her career and the junior half of the Captain's list would suffer a huge downgrade in QOL once the RJ guys start bidding in ahead of them. That is why the company is selling its majority interest in Frontier thus making the IMSL useless. In the name of safety and sanity it's best for everybody involved.

 

[Farscape]

If the new airbuses don't come then not every FO will upgrade in 7 years and some on the rah list will bump down native f9 pilots. Beyond allowing a staple of rah on the bottom of the seniority list the eischen award was about as good as everyone could get. I guess this all boils down to a philosophical argument. . . Was it ethically right for the IBT to insist on merging the seniority lists. It was certainly legal and those of us at rah knew we had to protect ourselves from a whipsaw hungry management. But the central question/problem that f9 pilots seem to have is that we have turned the natural career progression on its head by not letting rah management do what they wanted, resigning our positions and applying at f9 if that's what we really wanted. I really do understand that position, and I do think there is some validity to it, but our main motivation was not to take anyone's seat at f9, it was to protect our own seats. Fapa basically was asking us to give up our contractual right to merge and protect ourselves and leave them alone, thus keeping things the same at f9. I don't begrudge any f9 pilot for wanting us to stay out of their sandbox, but the potential consequences were just too high for us at rah to sit back and do nothing. I don't think the lists will be separated anytime soon. BB's attempt to sell off f9 is more of a head fake to get more concessions than a sincere attempt to offload the certificate. Even if f9 is sold, how do you separate a legally binding seniority list? I don't want to force u guys to stay here but I just don't see how you think it's going to magically dissolve if f9 is sold.

 

[SizzleChest]

there has been cases of separate ownsership and 1 seniority list before. Splitting off doesn't just go an un-do the IMSL. Besides, you have bigger things to worry about with JT coming up on deposition time in the lawsuit....

 

[Bolo]

there has been cases of separate ownsership and 1 seniority list before. Splitting off doesn't just go an un-do the IMSL. Besides, you have bigger things to worry about with JT coming up on deposition time in the lawsuit....

Don't worry we will take the Sizzle out and put Ice in front of Chest when we do go our own way. Keep dreaming RAH buddy that YOU will be in the seat of an F9 Airbus. Is that not what you wanted to get rid of us? Now your tune is changing because the inevitable is going to happen.