From the DAL/NWA rumor mill

[Truckdriver]

Not too fair for the NWA guys. I, for one, would be below the Apr'08 hires at DAL. Like I said before, I've been here 10 yrs. Is that a fair integration. Don' think so...

The rumored deal here looks like it is not the real deal. However, remember that DOH really doesn't mean much here. If you end up in a position that is relatively the same as the one you are currently in, then I don't see how it isn't fair. I'm at 93% on the current DAL list. I don't expect to be at 90% on a combined list nor do I expect to be at 97% on a combined list. If I end up behind somebody from NWA with a hire date after mine, but have the same relative seniority, then it's fair. With the way hiring has went at NWA and DAL, it does appear that you may have some guys from Delta with a DOH after yours that may be senior to you. If you end up in the same relative position, I still don't see how you can say that isn't fair.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Depends on where you sit.
But doing it that way does fall more towards equipment.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Rumors are rumors, and leave it at that.
I know it is driving people nuts, but like I said before there is a complete information black out.

 

[Truckdriver]

"I can't wait to be SLC based bc he is a PHX commuter." Nice touch buddy keep your comments to your self and stay in DTW please.

That's my concern. I doubt many Delta guys are chomping at the bit to head to MSP or DTW. I think that every NWA commuter from the west coast will bid SLC/LAX. Then those of us who are junior and chose Delta to live out west will be commuting to MSP or DTW. I hope there are some base fences for at least 5 years until the old guys start leaving again.

 

[JAM-BRO]

I guess you did not read what I wrote. The numbers I put up, put me, NWA 80%ile 10yr Seniority, just below a DAL 100%ile in indoc.... I would loose 12% on the list and your indoc guy would be up 8%..."Fair" to anyone...

The rumored deal here looks like it is not the real deal. However, remember that DOH really doesn't mean much here. If you end up in a position that is relatively the same as the one you are currently in, then I don't see how it isn't fair. I'm at 93% on the current DAL list. I don't expect to be at 90% on a combined list nor do I expect to be at 97% on a combined list. If I end up behind somebody from NWA with a hire date after mine, but have the same relative seniority, then it's fair. With the way hiring has went at NWA and DAL, it does appear that you may have some guys from Delta with a DOH after yours that may be senior to you. If you end up in the same relative position, I still don't see how you can say that isn't fair.

 

[JAM-BRO]

And I would prefer your math. It is still not a fair integration either way...

I like your math better!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Like I have said. It depends on how they take the 1/3,1/3,1/3.
One way is almost DOH at the bottom 1/3. and the other way favors us DAL boys.

 

[JAM-BRO]

Correct to you is your new hire, still in indoc, be senior to me with a 10yr seniority.... Come on!!!!

I don't know where the ratio lines are drawn, but wouldn't it make sense to try to make those lines match current equipment bids? If so, that would probably be close to correct, but still favor the NWA side slightly.

 

[JAM-BRO]

Favors is an understatement...

Like I have said. It depends on how they take the 1/3,1/3,1/3.
One way is almost DOH at the bottom 1/3. and the other way favors us DAL boys.

 

[NuGuy]

Could only think while they were talking that nothing could be worse then a 5day trip out of DTW.

What's the difference between a 5 day trip out of DTW and one out of ATL?

I mean, it's not like you're going out clubbing between legs or anything.

DTW has a very nice operation. Four long runways you don't have to cross while taxiing, extremely few delays, and reasonably decent food choices (it's no PIT, however). Sure, you have to de-ice, but the remote pads are VERY quick, and you're in, you're out and on your way.

One thing I will grant you, it's VERY hard to make money going INTO DTW.

MSP, on the other hand, holds people on VFR days, although the new runway helps.

MEM was the best...at least until FedEx started flying in the day time.

As far as the 5 day trips...So? Guys who commute LOVE them. Two 5 days and a 4 day, and you have an 80+ hour schedule with just 3 commutes. I personally don't like flying that much, so I just do 3 4 days for a min sked.

Heck, the 757/330/747 has 12 day trips. Come to work once a month, and if you work it right, 6 weeks off in between.

Nu

 

[~~~^~~~]

Correct to you is your new hire, still in indoc, be senior to me with a 10yr seniority.... Come on!!!!

Relative seniority was not good enough...

Ratio with dynamic seniority proposed by your negotiators was not good enough...

I do not think we can continue playing this game for long before Joe Merchant's "ATR drivers get DOH at Delta" starts to look reasonable. After all, if equipment, base and bid has nothing to do with it, Joe is right.

I respectfully disagree & you have no idea where I am.

 

[JAM-BRO]

DON"T GET ME WRONG HERE.....I am FOR relative sen. It provides the fairest integration... The rumored SLI is not even close to a relative SLI. I saw your list and with relative sen, I loose between 1.5 and 2 yrs of sen. I have said before, that I am OK with that trade. I am not OK with trading all my sen...

Relative seniority was not good enough...

Ratio with dynamic seniority proposed by your negotiators was not good enough...

I do not think we can continue playing this game for long before Joe Merchant's "ATR drivers get DOH at Delta" starts to look reasonable. After all, if equipment, base and bid has nothing to do with it, Joe is right.

I respectfully disagree & you have no idea where I am.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I do not think we can continue playing this game for long before Joe Merchant's "ATR drivers get DOH at Delta" starts to look reasonable. After all, if equipment, base and bid has nothing to do with it, Joe is right.

Point of clarification....I never advocated "DOH for ATR drivers".....but you and I both advocate some kind of "W2 style" method correct? Where does $112K a year get me on "W2 style" integration? Not DOH....but not stapled either......

 

[~~~^~~~]

That gets you way the heck ahead of me.

I still like the posted "Fair Plan" the best for a NWA merger. That way we do not end up with such stark contrasts between "winners" and "losers" at the bottom of the list. We can each decide individually when we bid out to the new list.

 

[Max Powers]

i agree...

the logic makes sense to me... if you go lease/buy a brand new Hybrid and get 60mpg, your monthly nut is still significantly higher than my paid off jeep cherokee at 12 mpg. especially on shorter routes.

Oh yea lets compare a highly complex problem to the Automobile. The -9 may be paid for but even if someone paid you to keep them they are still WAYYYYY more expensive to operate than a new 737, even if you include lease pymts on 737. Maint. is another huge expense. Not to mention oil which will cost hundreds of thousands per month per aircraft extra when compared to the new 737.

Why are NWA guys so delusional when talking about the economical viability of the DC-9????

I'll tell you:

"Trying to convince someone of the truth when the viability of his job depends on a lie is next to impossible."

B. Franklin