Friday Afternoon Breaking News- Dallas

[SWA/FO]

Southwest kicked Braniff's a$$.... the AA "phantom flights" were a big help too.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

There were some sharp people working for both sides/airlines. I have got to believe that each thought that this was the best that they could do. It doesn't result in a best/worst case scenario for either side. I think Flop got it right with it being an acceptable compromise for AA and SWA.

 

[DH2WN]

You heard it here first..........

In 10 years there will be a court battle for international flights from Love field.

www.setlovefreeagain.com

 

[Flopgut]

We're doing predictions? Here's one, I'm serious too. SWA and AA will MERGE!

This deal cleanses the Dallas airline palat. Going forward other mergers will force these two, very good airlines to merge.

 

[scoreboard]

We're doing predictions? Here's one, I'm serious too. SWA and AA will MERGE!

This deal cleanses the Dallas airline palat. Going forward other mergers will force these two, very good airlines to merge.

Man, the AA guys sure won't like being stapled to the bottom.

Just kidding folks, come on...

 

[Tejas-Jet]

They know the SWA modus operandi. They would have gone to Addison or even Northwest Regional, or maybe even built their own airport.

REally??? Then why hadn't SWA started service there before this agreement? SWA has always known those airports existed....not even a touch and go took place at any of those airports by a SWA aircraft....Are you really serious?

Tejas

 

[GuppyWN]

Flop,

Herb "had Braniff removed" from Love? I don't think so.

Some historian help me out here. Braniff matched us $ for $ on our routes trying to RUN US OUT OF BUSINESS. Our ad campaign was to give the customer a choice of a something I can't remember or of a fifth of booze. The slogan was something like "noboby is going to run us off for a lousy 5 bucks." We still hold the record for liquor sales in the state of Texas for that.

And a little history for you Flopgut. SWA never HAD to sign to move to DFW because when this was going on SWA wasn't even born yet. All CURRENT Love tennants were forced to sign. Shortly thereafter SWA was born. They asked us to go along and Herb didn't think it was a good idea at the time and he doesn't think it's a good idea now.

Just remember.... The deal has to pass congress by years end to be in effect. I'm certain you'll see continued politicing on both sides until it's inked by Washington. There are several states that are in the process of getting their states exempted. I think they should be allowed to continue their petitions.

Gup

 

[SWA/FO]

"nobody is going to shoot Southwest Airlines out of the sky for a lousy $13"

- Lamar Muse

 

[belchfire]

huh...the worlds largest airline has employees that worry about what SWA does...me thinks that they should worry more about their own management does (and where they hide the money and how many of them there are).

 

[Dangerkitty]

Your way behind the power curve.

Luckily, the authors of this agreement weren't going to give SWA the benefit of the doubt.

What are you talking about?

 

[Flopgut]

Kittykitty: SWA felt SEATAC was getting expensive so they threatened to move to King Co. Shookem down for some bucks and then stayed. OK, so that alone ain't so bad, but it certainly suggests they could do the same in Dallas. Maybe you aren't paying too close attention, but SWA operates from all manner of secondary airports, and there are few more of those in Dallas. SWA may luv Love, but there is obvious contempt of DFW on the part of SWA and the authors of the agreement wanted to protect themselves. At the same time, Love Field has been a painful enough experience in Dallas, to everyone but SWA, that no one wants to see something similiar in the metroplex.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Kittykitty: SWA felt SEATAC was getting expensive so they threatened to move to King Co. Shookem down for some bucks and then stayed. OK, so that alone ain't so bad, but it certainly suggests they could do the same in Dallas. Maybe you aren't paying too close attention, but SWA operates from all manner of secondary airports, and there are few more of those in Dallas. SWA may luv Love, but there exists obvious for contempt of DFW on the part of SWA that the authors of the agreement wanted to protect themselves. At the same time, Love Field has been a painful enough experience in Dallas, to everyone but SWA, that no one wants to see something similiar in the metroplex.

Flopgut,

You just dont get it do you?

SWA flies into DAL because their business model was built on it. If SWA started flying into Alliance only or any other Metroplex airport then their traffic would drop by half. Gauranteed.

People fly on SWA to and from DAL because it is so convenient to Downtown Dallas. Business travelers love it.

I am paying close attention to this. It's really not all that hard to understand.

 

[Flopgut]

Flop,

Herb "had Braniff removed" from Love? I don't think so.

Some historian help me out here. Braniff matched us $ for $ on our routes trying to RUN US OUT OF BUSINESS. Our ad campaign was to give the customer a choice of a something I can't remember or of a fifth of booze. The slogan was something like "noboby is going to run us off for a lousy 5 bucks." We still hold the record for liquor sales in the state of Texas for that.

And a little history for you Flopgut. SWA never HAD to sign to move to DFW because when this was going on SWA wasn't even born yet. All CURRENT Love tennants were forced to sign. Shortly thereafter SWA was born. They asked us to go along and Herb didn't think it was a good idea at the time and he doesn't think it's a good idea now.

Just remember.... The deal has to pass congress by years end to be in effect. I'm certain you'll see continued politicing on both sides until it's inked by Washington. There are several states that are in the process of getting their states exempted. I think they should be allowed to continue their petitions.

Gup

I'm familiar with the story. In the end it was not a bottle of hooch, it was a court order that got Braniff out of Love. (I have tried, and will continue to try to get this proof in a form that is well recieved on here) Ask an old Braniff guy, or maybe even email Herb, he seems to be softening up in his latter years.

But why don't we all take a little stock in this deal. We can probably put it to rest. A few posts ago I said it's too bad SWA folks can't do an "endzone dance", actually, I think you can! This ends the WA, we can all get ready for whatever is next, we all have a pretty level playing field. SWA is going to keep doing well, AA gets to breath, now lets start hoping for everyone to do well.

 

[Flopgut]

Flopgut,

You just dont get it do you?

SWA flies into DAL because their business model was built on it. If SWA started flying into Alliance only or any other Metroplex airport then their traffic would drop by half. Gauranteed.

People fly on SWA to and from DAL because it is so convenient to Downtown Dallas. Business travelers love it.

I am paying close attention to this. It's really not all that hard to understand.

The fact that the language is in the proposed agreement is proof enough. Why else is it in there?

Let's be done with this OK? Sorry I mentioned it.

 

[Flopgut]

Man, the AA guys sure won't like being stapled to the bottom.

Just kidding folks, come on...

There will be some unpleasantries for sure. But, it would be one he!! of an airline! That's the kind of airline Dallas ought to have. SWA employees could teach AA employees the mysteries of being personable (and get em all back to work), AA could teach SWA how to correctly price an airline ticket. If the merged airline could take the SWA fleet and polish out the paint base coat, there is probably some money in it from the community beautification board!

 

[aa73]

There will be some unpleasantries for sure. But, it would be one he!! of an airline! That's the kind of airline Dallas ought to have. SWA employees could teach AA employees the mysteries of being personable (and get em all back to work), AA could teach SWA how to correctly price an airline ticket. If the merged airline could take the SWA fleet and polish out the paint base coat, there is probably some money in it from the community beautification board!

Hey, maybe that's why "Silver One" was created....

All kidding aside, an AA-SWA "merger" woudln't exactly be a merger - it would be a complete acquisition by SWA.

Bring it on, I'll gladly take a staple at SWA. Just don't fence me off any equipment... oh wait, duh.

73

 

[J3CubCapt]

AA could teach SWA how to correctly price an airline ticket.

Gut, did you even READ my post #109?

 

[Flopgut]

Gut, did you even READ my post #109?

Is that the one about your business traveler wife? If so yes.

There is NO WAY business travelers deserve a low fare! Obviously, even though it's expensive she doesn't scrub the trip. It's the cost of doing business. They can just add it to the cost of a computer. Let me ask you this: If she could save grand is the price of a computer going to go down? Is she going to get more in pay and benefits? In both cases no, not really.

Ask her this: In her daily consumer routine, is there any instance, other than airline tickets, where a similiar product is being delivered at price so far below the inflation rate? Scale the economies for cars, houses, energy, education, or health care. About the only thing airline travel is beating is the cost of food! Checked in with the American farmer these days? And BTW, walk through produce section of a Canadian super market and you'll find where North America's premium produce is going. Wal-Mart has pretty much wiped out everybody else, now you can't even get a decent orange.

Does the guy who owns your wife's computer company need to be worth 40 billion, or does he need cheap airfares so he can be worth 40.001 billion?

 

[Flopgut]

Just tell me this J3Cub: What has the price of a J3 done in the last 25 years? Compare it to an airline ticket.

Forget about the above post, I don't want to get drawn into too much political stuff, let's stick with money.

The costs of operating the AA "production line" is more than SWA's. Mostly because SWA is simple and AA's is very elaborate. This agreement is great because, while you can beat AA right now, can you beat em in 8 years? Maybe, maybe not. But your going to have to look at your "production line" and make longer term decisions about how much it costs to run it. If I were you I'd start getting my customers used to higher fares.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

while you can beat AA right now, can you beat em in 8 years? Maybe, maybe not. But your going to have to look at your "production line" and make longer term decisions about how much it costs to run it. If I were you I'd start getting my customers used to higher fares.

It's really not about "beating" anybody. Its all about profits....SWA's profits, specifically. Now if AA, or UAL or even CAL show profits too....then all the better. But my first concern is really SWA's profits.

I believe that fares are going to come down in the DFW area....not up. More competition is good for the consumer....good for SWA"s profits. Where do you get the "higher fares" concept from?

Tejas

 

[Flopgut]

I got the idea for higher fares from watching the money in my checking account sqwuak 1200. I'm reminded every month. Higher fares fix everybody's problems. SWA has precious few problems and that's good. I hope your always profitable and hope your quality of life is always improving.

We in this industry have more than fulfilled our mandate. It's is cheaper for people to fly across the country and have lunch than it is to take a family of six to the local steakhouse. Our customers aren't passing these sorts of savings on to you and I no matter what they do.

It's about time to see what we can do with this airline deal. Number one rule in business? Get the money. If you can make more of it than me, that's fine. But let's all go get some. This WA repeal is a chance for us to go forward.

 

[Flopgut]

I realize these thoughts on fares maybe seem misplaced, but higher ticket prices should at least be a continuous consideration.

 

[big_al]

SWA would be hurting financially if it wasnt for fuel hedges. I guess that says something about their business model and what extremely low prices does to your profit and your employees as well as the competition

 

[Dangerkitty]

I realize these thoughts on fares maybe seem misplaced, but higher ticket prices should at least be a continuous consideration.

That statement is proof right there that you have absolutely no clue as to SWA's mission nor their business plan.

 

[Bake]

big al, you obviously don't know how to read a balance sheet nor do you understand any financial statements. Yes, SWA profits would be much lower however they wouldn't be in trouble by any means.

Sorry, I missed that but NO. It's your mama

 

[arthompson]

I believe that fares are going to come down in the DFW area....not up. More competition is good for the consumer....good for SWA"s profits. Where do you get the "higher fares" concept from?

Tejas

How do you figure there is more competition? The agreement shuts all carriers but AA, SWA and CAL out of DAL. How does this stimulate competition? It doesn't, it protects SWA from having to compete with anyone but the specified carriers at Love, yeah thats going to be so great for airfares and the consumer.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

SWA would be hurting financially if it wasnt for fuel hedges. I guess that says something about their business model and what extremely low prices does to your profit and your employees as well as the competition

Not according to the SWA CEO in public remarks. Besides to get hedges, one must pay for it all up front. SWA paid up front and still recorded no losses.

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

How do you figure there is more competition? The agreement shuts all carriers but AA, SWA and CAL out of DAL. How does this stimulate competition? It doesn't, it protects SWA from having to compete with anyone but the specified carriers at Love, yeah thats going to be so great for airfares and the consumer.

It does stimulate competition in the DFW area. Look at what happened to fares when MCI and STL were opened up. And they just didn't go down on routes out of DAL....DFW airport passengers also saw some savings.

The 2 AA gates will remain under AA's control. This doesn't mean that AA will or must remain there....they could leave ( yet again) and sublet those gates to anyone else.....including....SWA I guess....Look at HOU...there are only 5 gates there that are not SWA gates. Nobody seems to have any heartburn with that. Yet I can remember a time when NWA, Frontier ( the old one), CAL (mainline), AA ( mainline), EAL, and Delta all flew out of there. As they left or pulled out, seems nobody else wanted those gates except....SWA

Tejas

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

SWA would be hurting financially if it wasnt for fuel hedges. I guess that says something about their business model and what extremely low prices does to your profit and your employees as well as the competition

I'm not trying to dogpile you Big Al...

But CAPEX at SWA was 1.2B+ last year. We BOUGHT, not leased, over 30 new aircraft. 7.5% profit sharing. And there was still a profit.

If SWA was "hurting financially" I think the CAPEX budget might get trimmed a bit.


I can see a case that expenses may get outta control in the future. But they just aren't that way right now.

 

[arthompson]

Tejas: You missed the section of the agreement that shuts out new entrants to the DAL market, so no it doesn't stimulate copetition.