Freedom Pilots Loading Bags

[eatme]

You guys are going about it all wrong, hell, where else can you work and starve your fat ass larded bodies into lean powerful and fit physiques based on throwing 50lb bags into the cargo hold and lack of $money that this company pays.

 

[veneratio]

I am not trained on how to throw bags, push wheel chairs, nor clean the airplane. It is not part of my job description, and I don't get paid more money to do it. Therefore I never do it, if the flight leaves late because of bags, than I call ops and tell them the reason, that way perhaps they can fix the problem.

 

[Soverytired]

I am not trained on how to throw bags, push wheel chairs, nor clean the airplane. It is not part of my job description, and I don't get paid more money to do it. Therefore I never do it, if the flight leaves late because of bags, than I call ops and tell them the reason, that way perhaps they can fix the problem.

And yet, if you ever get an interview at a better company, you'll fall all over yourself telling a prospective employer how much you love customers and how you "went the extra mile" to go above and beyond your basic job description . . .

 

[Turtlesfly]

If you can fly an airplane you should be able to help with a little cleaning or handling bags without training.

NO. Let's just expand on that thought for a second. There are a LOT of flight attendants that will tell you outright here at XJT that they don't want your help cleaning because they know what they're doing. Take it one step farther: if you just go "Set up the galley" for them, do you not think they'd object? You don't know where they want stuff to go.

How about bags? You don't know what order they want stuff in - maybe you put the gate-checks in first but the crews want them to go in last. Were you counting the bags properly for the count whne you put them in? What about the ones already in there? How do you know the final total bag count?

Push a wheelchair? In this day of liability? What happens if you don't know how to use the wheel brake locks or what if they fail?

So why not just allow people to "help out" your job? Reminds me of the FO's who want to start APU's, fill out logbooks, call Mx, order fuel, commence boarding, etc, just to "help out the captain." Thanks but no thanks.


People who want to "help out" other people's jobs is like mowing your neighbor's yard. "Hey it's getting long and I just want to help out." You're not helping - this is my yard - don't mow my ********************."

 

[Raskal]

NO. Let's just expand on that thought for a second. There are a LOT of flight attendants that will tell you outright here at XJT that they don't want your help cleaning because they know what they're doing. Take it one step farther: if you just go "Set up the galley" for them, do you not think they'd object? You don't know where they want stuff to go.

How about bags? You don't know what order they want stuff in - maybe you put the gate-checks in first but the crews want them to go in last. Were you counting the bags properly for the count whne you put them in? What about the ones already in there? How do you know the final total bag count?

Push a wheelchair? In this day of liability? What happens if you don't know how to use the wheel brake locks or what if they fail?

So why not just allow people to "help out" your job? Reminds me of the FO's who want to start APU's, fill out logbooks, call Mx, order fuel, commence boarding, etc, just to "help out the captain." Thanks but no thanks.


People who want to "help out" other people's jobs is like mowing your neighbor's yard. "Hey it's getting long and I just want to help out." You're not helping - this is my yard - don't mow my ********************."

Dammit, I hate it when you make sense. Point taken.

 

[PCL_128]

And yet, if you ever get an interview at a better company, you'll fall all over yourself telling a prospective employer how much you love customers and how you "went the extra mile" to go above and beyond your basic job description . . .

Actually, no, I've never done that in an interview. If the job is contingent on me doing someone else's job, then I don't want it.

 

[PCL_128]

NO. Let's just expand on that thought for a second. There are a LOT of flight attendants that will tell you outright here at XJT that they don't want your help cleaning because they know what they're doing. Take it one step farther: if you just go "Set up the galley" for them, do you not think they'd object? You don't know where they want stuff to go.

How about bags? You don't know what order they want stuff in - maybe you put the gate-checks in first but the crews want them to go in last. Were you counting the bags properly for the count whne you put them in? What about the ones already in there? How do you know the final total bag count?

Push a wheelchair? In this day of liability? What happens if you don't know how to use the wheel brake locks or what if they fail?

So why not just allow people to "help out" your job? Reminds me of the FO's who want to start APU's, fill out logbooks, call Mx, order fuel, commence boarding, etc, just to "help out the captain." Thanks but no thanks.


People who want to "help out" other people's jobs is like mowing your neighbor's yard. "Hey it's getting long and I just want to help out." You're not helping - this is my yard - don't mow my ********************."

I agree with most of your post, but what exactly is wrong with the FO starting up the APU? When I was a CRJ CA, I hated it when I got to the airplane and the FO had been sitting there for 10 minutes in the sweltering heat with no air hooked up and hadn't started the APU. Is it because he was scared of guys like you yelling at him for it? The kid knows how to push a couple of buttons to start the APU, you know.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

................

 

[BoilerUP]

I cannot believe some of you people are either too good or too proud to provide good customer service to your passengers when others have failed them...and are hiding behind the weak veils of "I wasn't trained for that" or "Its too much of a liability".

You shouldn't be expected to do somebody else's job all the time...but doing a good thing for somebody every once in a while? Most people trip over themselves to do those things if it makes the difference between them making their commute home or not...

Then again I was one of those FOs that separated the release, programmed the FMS, started the APU, did the acceptance checks, told the fueler to slightly lower our order when I knew they chronically overfueled us and we were expecting a jumpseater, bought the crew coffee the first morning of those early shows and yes, occasionally tossed a gate-checked bag or pushed an old woman up a jetway in a wheelchair.

Funny...nobody ever told me I was demeaning the airline pilot profession, stepping beyond my responsibility, or doing my peers a disservice.

 

[Speedtape]

I cannot believe some of you people are either too good or too proud to provide good customer service to your passengers when others have failed them...and are hiding behind the weak veils of "I wasn't trained for that" or "Its too much of a liability".

You shouldn't be expected to do somebody else's job all the time...but doing a good thing for somebody every once in a while? Most people trip over themselves to do those things if it makes the difference between them making their commute home or not...

Then again I was one of those FOs that separated the release, programmed the FMS, started the APU, did the acceptance checks, told the fueler to slightly lower our order when I knew they chronically overfueled us and we were expecting a jumpseater, bought the crew coffee the first morning of those early shows and yes, occasionally tossed a gate-checked bag or pushed an old woman up a jetway in a wheelchair.

Funny...nobody ever told me I was demeaning the airline pilot profession, stepping beyond my responsibility, or doing my peers a disservice.

And where does it stop? Do you fuel your own airplane? Do you generate the releases? Do you provide your own ATC clearances and separation? Do you help do the payroll? Do you take and make reservations? Maybe you can really be cool and dump the lavs!

Maybe your are practicing that 3 year old kid behavior of "Hey Mom and everone else, LOOK AT ME!"

Carry on Dude! J.O. needs a whole army of guys like you! Meanwhile, the ramper is laughing his arse off when he sees that you will do his job--you have been well trained but misguided! Maybe you should stay away from the expresso at Starbucks!

 

[BoilerUP]

And where does it stop? Do you fuel your own airplane? Do you generate the releases? Do you provide your own ATC clearances and separation? Do you help do the payroll? Do you take and make reservations? Maybe you can really be cool and dump the lavs!

You lose credibility when you resort to extreme slippery-slope examples...although it'd be nice to be able to print your own releases at every outstation. I think UAX currently does this at many of their gateways...

Maybe your are practicing that 3 year old kid behavior of "Hey Mom and everone else, LOOK AT ME!"

Not really...I didn't do anything special and don't expect any kudos for my actions, although a cookie or two would be nice. If I were a passenger and saw somebody doing the things I did, given the situation, I'd be thankful somebody, ANYBODY seemed to give a damn about running an airline.

The passengers saying "thanks" was more than payment enough.

Carry on Dude! J.O. needs a whole army of guys like you! Meanwhile, the ramper is laughing his arse off when he sees that you will do his job--you have been well trained but misguided! Maybe you should stay away from the expresso at Starbucks!

I worked at Air Wisconsin, far from being a bottom-feeder. I didn't push wheelchairs or assist with carry-on bags every trip...but when I felt it prudent to do so in order to provide good customer service I took the initiative to make it happen.

Working as a team to provide a quality product people want to use and an experience they want to repeat...what a novel concept in the clusterfark known as the airline industry...

 

[Captainzero1]

Folks,

KEEP THIS IN MIND

While loading bags may seem to be very commendable, going the extra mile, taking care of your customers, there is a HUGE drawback.

Injury.

Say, a back injury from lifting a heavy bag. This type of injury occured while you were doing something that was not considered as a duty for your assigned position (FO or CA). Something that was not your job, and you get injured while doing it. You are covered if something happens while doing part of your duty on the job, not while doing something extra that wasn't your job.

Good luck getting out of that can of worms!

Tell that to the NetJets/CItationShares and Avantair Crews who get paid a alot more than you do about throwing bags.

 

[navigatro]

And where does it stop? Do you fuel your own airplane? Do you generate the releases? Do you provide your own ATC clearances and separation? Do you help do the payroll? Do you take and make reservations? Maybe you can really be cool and dump the lavs!

Maybe your are practicing that 3 year old kid behavior of "Hey Mom and everone else, LOOK AT ME!"

Carry on Dude! J.O. needs a whole army of guys like you! Meanwhile, the ramper is laughing his arse off when he sees that you will do his job--you have been well trained but misguided! Maybe you should stay away from the expresso at Starbucks!

Are you serious? Do you have ANY common sense? Or are you just stuck up and lazy? You must be a lot of fun to fly with.

 

[regionalcap]

Tell that to the NetJets/CItationShares and Avantair Crews who get paid a alot more than you do about throwing bags.

Isn't loading bags part of their job description though? Therefore, they would be covered if they had an injury. Guys are just saying that it is a gamble if you are not covered.

 

[Raoul Duke]

whether you are trained or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether you are covered is something goes wrong or you get hurt. That is a lame excuse and is not correct at all. Helping out once in a while is definately part of any job.

 

[PCL_128]

whether you are trained or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether you are covered is something goes wrong or you get hurt. That is a lame excuse and is not correct at all. Helping out once in a while is definately part of any job.

As a former union rep that dealt with this crap all the time, I can assure you that you are most certainly not covered when you are doing things outside of your job description. If you get injured while throwing bags, then workman's comp doesn't cover your injury. If you injure a wheelchair passenger while pushing them up the jetbridge, then that passenger can hold you personally liable, because you were not trained in the operation of the wheelchair and you were not authorized to handle that job in your job description.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Sorry man, if the company holds out on me (in a myriad of ways), I'll hold out on them (i.e. going out of my way.)

Slinging bags as a 121 pilot? Get real dude. That's a job which is already spoken for. Maybe in 91 or 135 (depending on the outfit) where you cater to a client and not the common cattle trash.

 

[navigatro]

As a former union rep that dealt with this crap all the time, I can assure you that you are most certainly not covered when you are doing things outside of your job description. If you get injured while throwing bags, then workman's comp doesn't cover your injury. If you injure a wheelchair passenger while pushing them up the jetbridge, then that passenger can hold you personally liable, because you were not trained in the operation of the wheelchair and you were not authorized to handle that job in your job description.

My brother is a worker's comp manager for a major manufacturer. He says that you are absolutely wrong.

 

[PCL_128]

My brother is a worker's comp manager for a major manufacturer. He says that you are absolutely wrong.

I doubt you even have a brother that works in this area, but I'll humor you. Your brother's employer may not challenge these cases, but many other employers do. The law is clear: if you engage in activities at work that aren't part of your job, then you are not entitled to worker's comp payments. Your employer may be benevolent enough to let you get by with it, but if they decide to challenge your claim, then they'll win. Since most airlines aren't exactly benevolent, then good luck on them not challenging you.

 

[EmeliaE]

I non-reved on Freedom Flt 6211 (JFK-CVG) a few days ago and during boarding BOTH the CPT & FO left the flight deck and started loading bags.

Is this now a required flight crew duty over at Freedom?

I am sure it ruined your day as you 'did not' get the response you were looking for, did ya?

If Air Blue pilots can clean the cabin, what's wrong with Freedom pilots helping with bags.

 

[navigatro]

I doubt you even have a brother that works in this area, but I'll humor you. Your brother's employer may not challenge these cases, but many other employers do. The law is clear: if you engage in activities at work that aren't part of your job, then you are not entitled to worker's comp payments. Your employer may be benevolent enough to let you get by with it, but if they decide to challenge your claim, then they'll win. Since most airlines aren't exactly benevolent, then good luck on them not challenging you.

You can doubt all you want, but as long as you are working for the same employer, and doing "work" i.e. not choking on a hot dog at lunch, then you are covered. That is the rule in this state, and many others, whether you are covered by the state worker's comp program, or are privately (or self) insured. I do not need your humor. I deal in facts. Ask the worker's comp manager at your company.

 

[PCL_128]

Ask the worker's comp manager at your company.

No need. This company has already challenged worker's comp for a pilot going "above and beyond" and getting injured in the process a few years ago. They won.

 

[Speedtape]

No need. This company has already challenged worker's comp for a pilot going "above and beyond" and getting injured in the process a few years ago. They won.

Whether they cover or not is NOT the Question! Do you get paid to do it and who is watching the cockpit?

 

[PCL_128]

Whether they cover or not is NOT the Question! Do you get paid to do it and who is watching the cockpit?

Hey, I'm not disagreeing, but I think all of it is relevant. There are multiple problems here:

1. you're not covered
2. you're not getting paid
3. you have other work to do in the cockpit
4. the rampers could grieve it if they're unionized (I've actually seen this from NWA rampers)
5. it demeans the profession

Take your pick of reasons, but it's just a bad idea all around.

 

[hockeypilot44]

It amazes me that some pilots will go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt to take a job that pays so little that he/she qualifies for food stamps, and then that pilot will go above and beyond and load bags in 90 degree weather while wearing a uniform with a white shirt for no compensation.

 

[BoilerUP]

It amazes me that some pilots will go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt to take a job that pays so little that he/she qualifies for food stamps, and then that pilot will go above and beyond and load bags in 90 degree weather while wearing a uniform with a white shirt for no compensation.

So the United pilot featured in the WSJ a while back that personally speaks with his passengers and escorts UMs on and off the airplane is out of line?

What about all those Southwest pilots I saw on "Airline!" that helped little old ladies in wheelchairs? Are they unprofessional?

Do you also choose to not help passengers when they ask you where a certain gate is?

It ain't about mainline or regional buddy...its about people taking the initiative to come together and get the job done for their passengers (you know, those damn people that allow you to collect a paycheck) when things are at their worst.

(I notice you edited your post to take out the "I fly for money, you must do it as a hobby" line...nice touch)

 

[Amish RakeFight]

So the United pilot featured in the WSJ a while back that personally speaks with his passengers and escorts UMs on and off the airplane is out of line?
The PR nonsense re: the about-to-retire 777 captain?

What about all those Southwest pilots I saw on "Airline!" that helped little old ladies in wheelchairs? Are they unprofessional?
It's called TV. You wouldn't believe how orchestrated and contrived it really is behind the scenes.

Do you also choose to not help passengers when they ask you where a certain gate is? If you cant figure out where your gate is, you're an imbecile and shouldn't be traveling alone. Avoid eye contact with bewildered eyes.

It ain't about mainline or regional buddy...its about people taking the initiative to come together and get the job done for their passengers (you know, those damn people that allow you to collect a paycheck) when things are at their worst.
passengers suck and so does terminal food. what you're breeding is in sociological jargon, "a false consciousness." The airlines are no longer a community in which this type of behavior would actually help. It is WAY too divided.

(I notice you edited your post to take out the "I fly for money, you must do it as a hobby" line...nice touch)

The airlines are dog-eat-dog. For the most part, passengers are rude, demanding and really dont give a flying fark about you or your nice deed. It's thankless work. Believe me.

But Boiler, I will say this. You seem like a stand up moral/ethical guy who would make any mom proud. And I say this sincerely. Your mom brought you up right. It's just that some things just aren't worth it.

 

[BoilerUP]

But Boiler, I will say this. You seem like a stand up moral/ethical guy who would make any mom proud. And I say this sincerely. Your mom brought you up right. It's just that some things just aren't worth it.

I appreciate the compliment...its definitely a rare thing on Flightinfo these days.

Perhaps I'm just full of youthful idealism, but when I drove an RJ I viewed my job responsibilities not just as a guy in the pointy end going from Point A to B but as an employee in a service industry that has long since forgotten even the basic tenants of "service".

Its not like I helped with carry-on bags or pushed wheelchairs every trip or even every month...but when I thought a situation warranted me doing a little bit above and beyond the duties in my FOM, I took the initiative to make it happen. I'd also be lying if I didn't say most of those situations had a self-serving end...which I'm sure was part of those Freedom pilots' reasoning as well.

As I said before I didn't do anything special and certainly don't feel I deserve any kudos...guess I just treated folks the way I'd want to be treated in those situations.

:0

 

[Turtlesfly]

alright, maybe FO's starting the APU's was a bit of a stretch . . . but basic idea applies.


One other thought: we at XJT have to print our own releases in 2 of our 3 bases - and the 3rd one is coming. The makeshift printers in the terminal never work right and it's a huge hassle. Simple cost-saving measures, and we pretty much have no say in it.

 

[jea]

I think that is actually a great example! it doesnt take 30 minutes to run the preflight checks in the plane I fly... and its good PR... passengers dont know what we do- honestly are you the guy who sits up there and trys to look extra busy so your job looks that much more impressive?

Who's running the preflight checks? Maybe you missed your calling. Leading by example is part of the job! Most of your passengers would probably prefer to see their flight crew being diligent, disciplined, and professional--and in the flight deck!

I would have great concern as a passenger seeing a pilot loading the bags and then hopping in the cockpit to fly the flight. Who's minding the store?

What are you trying to prove? It sure isn't Leadership by Example as your example is not one most would want to follow.