Freedom Pilots Loading Bags

[dooork]

You also have to wonder if those rampers really want pilots "helping out." Management might actually staff that base with enough workers to get planes out on time if the planes were all going out late.

If the odd pilot goes back there and starts throwing bags, it masks what is an obvious problem. Call your times as they are, and do your job the best you can, but do -your- job.

Also: stop it. It's not your job. You're doing someone else's job. Someone else who doesn't have a job because you're doing it... for free.

Golly gee, it also makes you wonder if this is FI BS.

 

[Spicepilots]

WOW...... heaven forbid the uniform get dirty!!!! maybe you should work out a little it will reduce the risk of injury as well... peoples selfishness amazes me... liberal pansies.... i HATE pilots....

Hey, I'm a "liberal" and I still help straighten the cabin and occasionally move carry-ons when the situation requires it.

In case anyone hadn't noticed, we're all in a fight for our jobs. The glory days of Pan Am are gone, and they ain't coming back, so we can kiss the dream of people bowing and scraping because you wear the stripes goodbye. If taking two minutes of your precious time to cross seatbelts with the FA and improve the appearance of the cabin, or pull a few carry-ons through the jet bridge door on your way back from the post-flight is too demeaning, then so be it. You don't hear the Southwest guys complaining.

 

[can99]

Us fractional peoples have no problem loading bags, and all sorts of crap, nor do we have any problem cleaning a cabin including vacuuming the floor or wiping the crap oozing from the engine cowls... but of course we do all get paid proper money for what we do.

There is more to being a professional pilot than pretending you are a demi god in your clapped out crj/erj you know! I commend the guys for helping load the bags, and a I sure bet the ground crew appreciated the help.

 

[doh]

Us fractional peoples have no problem loading bags, and all sorts of crap, nor do we have any problem cleaning a cabin including vacuuming the floor or wiping the crap oozing from the engine cowls... but of course we do all get paid proper money for what we do.

There is more to being a professional pilot than pretending you are a demi god in your clapped out crj/erj you know! I commend the guys for helping load the bags, and a I sure bet the ground crew appreciated the help.

The key phrase here is "get paid proper money for what we do." I wouldn't throw bags at a regional EVER! Not because I have an attitude, but because I know that if I get hurt, management will then say it wasn't my job and deny me oji. I will then have to fight for oji. In the mean time I will not have the money to pay my bills. It does me no good to win the fight after I have lost my house. I too am at a frac, and I gladly go the extra mile because I know management won't throw me under the bus! But you are clueless to think a regional is anything like that.

 

[Tar Heel]

This used to be a respectable career. Throwing bags is degrading to our profession just like cleaning the cabin is. I put pushing wheelchairs on the same level. If we want to get paid like professionals, we need to start acting like professionals. We wear suits to work. Our uniform is not appropriate to be throwing bags on the ramp. On top of that, there is the liability issue that was just brought up. These pilots work for Mesa though so I take it they do not care about degrading our profession (or sh!tty job that it's turned into).

I used to work the ramp for SWA. I cannot tell you how many times flight crews would help us out. They might not hop in the bin but they'd grab the gate checks or if it was just two rampers working the flight they'd toss a few bags. What's not professional about customer service? They are the ones responsible for your paycheck. The mentality of I don't have to lift a finger is wrong. I agree and respect the injury component and yes there are contractual issues. But if they are really swamped on the ramp, most won't mind. In fact they'll probably be grateful.

However, having worked the ramp I am not afraid to help the guys and gals - especially when they're busting their ass. It's not beneath me because unlike some - I care enough to keep the Customer coming back and have a job. It is okay to get out of the cockpit and help out. Bring up the stroller if they are busy or help the guys and gals with the belts if you're not busy. It only takes a second. But to say it's unprofessional? Please! It has nothing to do with dragging down the industry.

 

[McNugget]

I used to work the ramp for SWA. I cannot tell you how many times flight crews would help us out. They might not hop in the bin but they'd grab the gate checks or if it was just two rampers working the flight they'd toss a few bags. What's not professional about customer service? They are the ones responsible for your paycheck. The mentality of I don't have to lift a finger is wrong. I agree and respect the injury component and yes there are contractual issues. But if they are really swamped on the ramp, most won't mind. In fact they'll probably be grateful.

However, having worked the ramp I am not afraid to help the guys and gals - especially when they're busting their ass. It's not beneath me because unlike some - I care enough to keep the Customer coming back and have a job. It is okay to get out of the cockpit and help out. Bring up the stroller if they are busy or help the guys and gals with the belts if you're not busy. It only takes a second. But to say it's unprofessional? Please! It has nothing to do with dragging down the industry.

Except for a city like Philly, where you would be shot dead for such an offense, before they all went back to taking naps and doing shots of Cheez Whiz.

 

[On Your Six]

Instead of loading bags they could have been thoroughly cleaning the cabin. That way they could prepare for future positions with Jet Blue... Practice makes perfect... Actually, that does show good initiative on their part.

 

[aewanabe]

Hockey Pilot: Did you tell everyone at your JetBlue interview that you were above cleaning and pushing wheelchairs? Hope NW is treating you well.

 

[Jackie Moon]

This may just be at my airline but we have swing ramps so passengers don't have to climb up the stairs to the Airplane. I was recently told in Recurrent Ground Training that if you walk up to the aircraft and the bottom of the swing ramp is up we are not to touch it. It is not that we are not capable of doing it but we have not been trained and if something were to happen to you or the aircraft you would be responsible for performing a job you are not trained to do.

Also and correct me if I am wrong (which on FI I am sure everyone will) during contract negotiations we were told that we had to enforce everything in the contract because if we let certain this slid because we thought they were no big deal that after a while they would become the understood definition of that part of the contract.

 

[Jackie Moon]

If the company wants us to help with aircraft cleaning and bags on quick turns then they need to negotiate in the contract and train us to do it. They will never do it because some will do it for free and the cost would not be worth it to the company.

 

[spitfire1500]

GUYS AT FREEDOM DO NOT LOAD ANY BAGS...YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED...WE had a pilot (Mike A) doing that a few years back on the BEECH and he hurt his back and has not been able to get a medical to fly since and has undergone countless operations!! Mesa has done everything they could to get out of paying this guy anything and he can not work anymore. They pointed out first thing in the GOM it is not a duty of the pilots and hence they are not responsible for what happens if you do this!! Do what you want but it is not the crews responsibility that the company or their codeshares are too damn cheap to have proper staffing!!!

 

[JustaNumber]

I would be willing to bet that these would be the same guys who say they don't have time to read all the notams, or who don't have their charts out and are not completely familiar with their routing should the FMS fail, or who haven't completely reviewed the weather, etc.

Just a thought: are you doing your own job to the best of your ability first and foremost? That is the ultimate service you can give your passengers. I know when I'm a passenger, I know exactly what I want my pilots doing, and it sure ain't throwing bags!

 

[Capt10Matt]

I'm all for helping prepare an originating aircraft, or helping flight attendants in any way possible when help is needed. It's courteous and the right thing to do whether it's "your job" or not.

BUT, does it scare you a little bit to think that by helping regularly load 50-60 bags to be on time that you may be digging yourselves into something that was once the "courteous and right thing" , has now become an expectation and a duty so that management can get the most bang for their buck...ha...forget it!

 

[timeless]

If the company wants us to help with aircraft cleaning and bags on quick turns then they need to negotiate in the contract and train us to do it. They will never do it because some will do it for free and the cost would not be worth it to the company.

If you can fly an airplane you should be able to help with a little cleaning or handling bags without training.

 

[Bringupthebird]

So remember, if you injure yourself in the fitness center at the Amerisuites showing off for the new FA, you might be putting your job at risk. You're better off to run off and leave her to cross seat belts and maybe send the van back for her. She'll understand. You're a PROFESSIONAL.

 

[Captain Morgan]

If you can fly an airplane you should be able to help with a little cleaning or handling bags without training.

That might be the mantra from 30-40 years ago, he!! maybe even 15. But as pointed out earlier in the discussion, should and shall are way off in this legal world we live in. See a few posts back about the Mesa Beech guy that threw out his back and mgt claimed he wasn't performing correct duties which ultimately screwed him. I have no problem handling bags or getting duty; it's downright fun sometimes! But I won't do it, because I need to protect myself and my family. This is unfortunate but this is the mode of thinking nowdays.

 

[vectorvictor]

Leading by example is part of the job! I actually enjoy talking with customers, handing them there bags, and even pushing a wheelchair up a steep jetway. I don't have to do it, but I enjoy it.

VV

 

[Speedtape]

Leading by example is part of the job! I actually enjoy talking with customers, handing them there bags, and even pushing a wheelchair up a steep jetway. I don't have to do it, but I enjoy it.

VV

Who's running the preflight checks? Maybe you missed your calling. Leading by example is part of the job! Most of your passengers would probably prefer to see their flight crew being diligent, disciplined, and professional--and in the flight deck!

I would have great concern as a passenger seeing a pilot loading the bags and then hopping in the cockpit to fly the flight. Who's minding the store?

What are you trying to prove? It sure isn't Leadership by Example as your example is not one most would want to follow.

 

[B727FA]

I non-reved on Freedom Flt 6211 (JFK-CVG) a few days ago and during boarding BOTH the CPT & FO left the flight deck and started loading bags.

Is this now a required flight crew duty over at Freedom?

I say "good for them" for doing anything it takes...

 

[B727FA]

This used to be a respectable career. Throwing bags is degrading to our profession just like cleaning the cabin is. I put pushing wheelchairs on the same level. If we want to get paid like professionals, we need to start acting like professionals. We wear suits to work. Our uniform is not appropriate to be throwing bags on the ramp. On top of that, there is the liability issue that was just brought up. These pilots work for Mesa though so I take it they do not care about degrading our profession (or sh!tty job that it's turned into).

You don't remember your history very well...
Ask a WN driver if he agrees...or how things were done "back in the day." Is a charter/frac guy "degrading" the profession when they load bags? Get over yourself...

 

[B727FA]

ALL ABOARD! GREYHOUND BUS DRIVERS DON'T EVEN LOAD BAGS ON THE BUS!

Yes they do...do you think the bags just jump in on their own?

 

[B727FA]

If the company wants us to help with aircraft cleaning and bags on quick turns then they need to negotiate in the contract and train us to do it.

You need "training" to pull trash or cross a seatbelt? And FA's are the stupid ones?

So FA's shouldn't get your trash bag for the flight deck, get you a soda, snack, etc b/c that's not in THEIR job description?

Get over yourself...you're not that important. Trust me...

 

[91100 100 set]

So aside from the injury/OSHA issues, who is minding the store with a running APU and plane full of people? Who are they gonna hang when something catches fire and both pilots are out throwing bags?

A little surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Anyone remember People Express?

 

[Salukipilot4590]

You need "training" to pull trash or cross a seatbelt? And FA's are the stupid ones?

The FAs recieved training on exactly that...

 

[blesko]

With most everyone trying to apply to be on the NetJets/Options/Flexjet (insert fractional here) kick, perhaps you realize they do it all as well. Cleaning, catering, cleaning up after the 4 year old snot that dumped grape juice all over the carpet because the parents can afford to charter an airplane so they dont have to. Sure the pay might be slightly higher, after being in the 135 world as some of you have been, and listening to some of their pilots, grass ain't always greener.

Point is, throwing bags, probably not the most advisablet thing to do. I'll run a valet down if it gets past our crack delta agents in atl, but that's about it. Cleaning the cabin and tidying up? Just because we sit up front, doesnt mean we're above helping our flight attendant(s).

This thread has gotten slightly out of control. Yes, we need uphold our profession, but if it boils down to cleaning the cabin? We have MUCH bigger fish to fry in the "how we uphold our profession" fight. Let those that get paid to work outside the plane, work outside the plane. that can be done while boarding.

Don't get injured on the job, use some common sense, but lose the elitest attitude. Makes me f**** sick.

 

[Jackie Moon]

You need "training" to pull trash or cross a seatbelt? And FA's are the stupid ones?

So FA's shouldn't get your trash bag for the flight deck, get you a soda, snack, etc b/c that's not in THEIR job description?

Get over yourself...you're not that important. Trust me...

First off who said FA's are stupid? Second our FA's don't clean the cabin. We have cabin services for that. Do what you want but I am busy enough up front making sure everything is ready for a safe on time departure.

That being said if I am leaving the airplane and a passenger is waiting for a pink tag that is about to be sent to baggage claim I will go grab it for him.

Beyond that ask one of your chief pilot's if they want you loading bags. I am sure you will here the same reasons from them as to why this is a bad idea.

and on your way out if you see a opossum try and kill it. It's not a pet.

Jackie Moon

 

[Raskal]

With most everyone trying to apply to be on the NetJets/Options/Flexjet (insert fractional here) kick, perhaps you realize they do it all as well. Cleaning, catering, cleaning up after the 4 year old snot that dumped grape juice all over the carpet because the parents can afford to charter an airplane so they dont have to. Sure the pay might be slightly higher, after being in the 135 world as some of you have been, and listening to some of their pilots, grass ain't always greener.

Point is, throwing bags, probably not the most advisablet thing to do. I'll run a valet down if it gets past our crack delta agents in atl, but that's about it. Cleaning the cabin and tidying up? Just because we sit up front, doesnt mean we're above helping our flight attendant(s).

This thread has gotten slightly out of control. Yes, we need uphold our profession, but if it boils down to cleaning the cabin? We have MUCH bigger fish to fry in the "how we uphold our profession" fight. Let those that get paid to work outside the plane, work outside the plane. that can be done while boarding.

Don't get injured on the job, use some common sense, but lose the elitest attitude. Makes me f**** sick.

I was just about to bring that up. I understand the liability/injury issue and think that's the correct reason for not loading bags in general. However, helping cross the belts and what have you during tight turns is something I often do if I have time. I don't see what the problem is there.

 

[time builder]

I used to work the ramp for SWA. I cannot tell you how many times flight crews would help us out. They might not hop in the bin but they'd grab the gate checks or if it was just two rampers working the flight they'd toss a few bags. What's not professional about customer service? They are the ones responsible for your paycheck. The mentality of I don't have to lift a finger is wrong. I agree and respect the injury component and yes there are contractual issues. But if they are really swamped on the ramp, most won't mind. In fact they'll probably be grateful.

However, having worked the ramp I am not afraid to help the guys and gals - especially when they're busting their ass. It's not beneath me because unlike some - I care enough to keep the Customer coming back and have a job. It is okay to get out of the cockpit and help out. Bring up the stroller if they are busy or help the guys and gals with the belts if you're not busy. It only takes a second. But to say it's unprofessional? Please! It has nothing to do with dragging down the industry.

I've been very impressed with SWA crews as well. I've also seen them bring down gate checked strollers and car seats (not heavy lifting, but hey, you just saved one of your rampees 3 minutes).

SWA runs one of the tightest schedules in the industry, and they have a happy, motivated work force that's willing to go the extra mile. Are they "whores"? Quite the opposite. They're providing an example to the rest of the industry of what taking care of your employees will do for your company.

 

[PCL_128]

So FA's shouldn't get your trash bag for the flight deck, get you a soda, snack, etc b/c that's not in THEIR job description?

I don't know about where you work, but it's in the FA's job description at my company. And the last company I worked for also. You may not like it, but it's part of the job.

Oh, and it'd be a cold day in hell before I would throw any bags.