Freedom Chief Pilot gets Mesa F/O fired

[KeroseneDream]

Thanks...

If you're a TSA pilot exactly when were you or any other fellow pilot outsourced ??? Outsourced, since you obviously haven't the least clue, is when your job is taken away from you and moved to another location at a lower pay rate... This has not happened to a single TSA pilot to date....

It has however, happened to a few thousand major airline pilots. :erm: Come to think of it, I don't see near as many of them whining about it.

It happened to a few thousand major airline pilots due to the scope clauses THEY negotiated in to their contracts. Another location was allowed to operated under their banner for lower rates for the purpose of maintaining market share. For the possibility that jobs would be reclaimed by these major airline pilots when business turned around. The major airline pilots allowed this to start. Now these sub-contractors start to see opportunity in other areas of the market and create alter-ego companies under a holding company to get around an agreement that they made. This should infuriate these major airline pilots as their NEGOTIATED language is being side-stepped in bad faith!

I don't like the downward spiral either, but I'm tired of major airline pilots peering down from their toppeling pedestal and blaming the regional pilots for the downfall of the industry. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? I doesn't fricken matter we are all in this together! I wish the major airline pilot groups would step up and acknowledge that these alter-ego carriers are THEIR problem too!

 

[capt. megadeth]

We're they too busy golfing and skiing with JO? AH not hear his cell phone while in line at Fudruckers for his 4th lunch of the day?

Ha ha....no doubt

 

[FR8mastr]

FR8mastr:

Oh, I get it now! Regional pilots don't fit the "standard" of directly replacing work? That makes it OK? Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

A350

This has nothing to do with what makes me sleep at night, for someone who claims this is nothing personal you sure are making it that way.

I got in this with my opinion on what a SCAB is. As you said the major's unions Delta United, Airways and others all allowed the RJ's to fly by relaxing their scope. So if Joe pilot works for the airline that benefitted from that good for him. Its the ML MEC's fault for allowing the scope to change. That is why the average regional pilot does not fit the "standard".
However, the pilot that goes to another company for the sole purpose of bypassing a scope agreement (see the difference, agianst the scope, and complying with the scope) for his own personal gain, that is a scab!

I know its difficult to stay focused on these subjects as they are quite loaded. But please try to read the post before the insults start flying.

And by the way I dont work for a regional

 

[A350]

Its not personal.....its business.

But you all are making it personal and asking for repurcussions and using terms you need to understand before you start using them.

Call it whatever you want.

A350

 

[mckpickle]

The freemdom fight is over. Has been for a long time. The only grudge that the regional pilots should hold is against the 87 ORIGINAL Freedom pilots and how it caused MESA to undercut the whole industry.

 

[WSurf]

The freemdom fight is over. Has been for a long time. The only grudge that the regional pilots should hold is against the 87 ORIGINAL Freedom pilots and how it caused MESA to undercut the whole industry.

I hope you guys make the lives of those 87 HELL!

 

[brew3departure]

Hey A350...

This is a long post...and I just couldn't let this go. It's interesting to hear your perspective on things. You talk about all regional pilots, and how you don't consider them scabs. You cite people getting jobs at 500 hours who couldn't get a job flying the Shorts ten years ago.

And...you also said that, in a nutshell, all regional pilots were able to take advantage of this on the backs of the mainline folks who were struggling in Ch. 11.

In the words of Shaquille O'Neal..."'scuse me?"

First off, I didn't get hired with 500 hours. I didn't start in a shiny new jet. That's not the point. Your general criticism of regional pilots, if I understand you correctly, is that you equate being hired with low time to stealing jobs and raising to the level of the "virtual" scab? Hello?

The hiring of low time people started a long time ago. It's gone in cycles...just like everything else in aviation. What about when things were really rosy...in the year or so prior to 9/11. Major airlines were making money hand over fist. Ticket prices were up, oil was down, life was good, right? A _lot_ of low time people were hired during that time. And a lot of people who started at the regionals at the very beginning of the hiring boom moved on to major airlines, too. I don't remember anyone in Chapter 11 then, do you? Maybe a stray airline here or there...but not what we have today.

And furthermore, it's _so_ easy to forget where you came from, or where a lot of your co-workers came from once you reach the next career step.

The biggest point that needs to made here, though, is you CONDEMN regional pilots for profiteering off the backs of mainline, YET YOU LEAVE OUT THE PART where ALPA and their respective mainline pilots LET IT HAPPEN. Re-read the paragraph above this one. WE should be mad at YOU, not the other way around. All other things being equal, if any regional pilot could have gone straight to a major - wouldn't he or she have done so? It doesn't work that way, though. It's easy to play what if...but indeed, what if ALPA and the respective groups had demanded better protections when the RJ's started to arrive? What if they had drawn the line at 50 seats or 34 seats...wouldn't we ALL be in a better position now? Even we, the red headed stepchildren of the industry, the regional pilots? Why didn't this happen? You tell me...I'm sure some of it is due to the fact that it wasn't a widely held notion that regional jets would replace mainline routes. It's not like the specifications and range of the RJ was a huge secret, though? Right?

The short answer is, ALPA and "pilots at mainline" didn't want to be bothered with the small stuff any more. "That's kid stuff...we don't want to fly that small crap." Whether it's admitted or not...this attitude like this played a part and reared its ugly head. Look where that has brought us. You were quite eloquent in pointing it out...regional pilots fighting amongst each other. Mergers...stealing flying...industry in turmoil. Incredible how it can go from "We don't want to fly that small stuff" to "Hey, can I fly that small stuff via a J4J program?"

I know it's not the goal of all regional pilots to move on to a bigger and better place. It is for most, though. And, please, don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. Several airlines ago for me was an ALPA airline; I have an idea of how far things have come, how much has been bitterly fought for and that we really do owe a lot of the work rules and perks we take for granted on a daily basis to you - the mainline pilots -- present and past. I also don't think for a minute that you represent the majority of mainline folks out there; just as I probably don't represent the sentiments of many of my co-workers. That aside, though, it is now _much_ more difficult for me to get where you are because of what your union has advocated and accepted. We (I) share in this blame as well; but it's not simply one or the other. And it _certainly_ isn't as simple as saying the reason is that people were hired with low time.

If it ticks you off to see low time people getting airline jobs, what is the source of your anger? Are you angry because you had to spend thousands of hours instructing or flying freight to fly a turboprop, and now that you're in a good place, you think everyone should have to go through that? Let me ask you this - would you have jumped at the opportunity to fly for a regional with five hundred hours? Or would you have held out and continued doing whatever job you were doing "For the good of the industry" -- give me a break. As much as I detest the Freedom A-list and the whole fiasco with GJ, we do agree on one thing. These guys aren't scabs...yes, perhaps the landscape is changing; with an anti-labor administration the strike as we know it will become a dinosaur...an empty threat - you never know.

But don't sit there, high and mighty, and condemn regional pilots as unworthy of their careers and comparing them (not calling them, mind you) to SCABS simply because many of them were able to arrive at their career in a different (and perhaps easier) route than you did.

And, what's the alternative? Can you show me a different route to the major airlines besides the regionals? Sure...the military - a great place to go, great training, great flying...but not for everyone. Medically or otherwise. For the passenger carrying airlines, is there any substitute for 121 experience? Please, tell me...because I'll get the word out and all of us can stop ruining your career and lifestyle. I think that would be advantageous for everyone, yes?

I am very fortunate and grateful to be where I am. I'd much rather be where you are. So would many of us. Whether you had a hand in it or not, that's a helluva lot more difficult now.

Rant off.

-brew3

 

[A350]

Brew3:

A cogent post......but I disagree.

You are just trying to turn the tables on who created this mess.

If I read your post correctly, you believe that the current mess is the mainline pilots fault!

Lets put it this way. I agree that we all are responsible for the mess the industry created. You are correct that if we (the mainline MEC's) went after all the jet flying that there wouldn't be any whipsawing from the regionals, if we hadn't allowed pay for training, if we had fought for brand scope or a national seniority list.....maybe we wouldn't be having this discussion.

However, my post was meant to say that if we all are at fault, you don't see mainline pilots running around calling each other and the regional pilots scabs and scumbags. We need to try to be professional and treat each other with respect, seeing as how neither management nor the public will.

Yes, things have changed......

Seriously, you don't want the career I have had.....

A350

 

[merlindrvr88]

.....

 

[DX Rick]

Oh Snap Dawg!