Freedom Chief Pilot gets Mesa F/O fired

[81Horse]

Does Mesa have a probationary period (assuming "yes")? ALPA can't do much for the F/O if he was on probation -- presumably he broke several rules and policies (sterile cockpit, etc.). And worst of all, he got caught.

The tires would have been the way to go, for sure -- if he could have had someone else do it for him. 'Cause who knows? There might be surveillance cameras in the parking lot.

 

[WSurf]

Management could easily make the case that this f/o broke the sterile cockpit rule. Sounds silly, but now they have an FAR and the FAA to back them up legally. At any rate it was unprofessional

What the hell does talking on a radio have anything to do with Sterile Cockpit! The guy clicked on "Said Scab" so what! You call him into chief pilots office question him about it, and tell him please don't do it again. Is it unprofessional? Yes! Is it terms for getting fired? Hell No!
The Mesa pilot Group should be banging on the door and trying to help this guy out. Jeez, you that scared of JO!!!

 

[superrav]

I wondored if you guys had a Alpa MEC..doesnt sound like it...that sucks. U pay your dues..and get shafted..nice.

Here's the gist of the story.
Freedom flight in front of a Mesa on the ground. Mesa F/O thinks he hears his buddy who was forced to fly on the Freedom side. Mesa F/O says on the radio while on the ground "Scab". No reply. Freedom flight is now well airborne, Mesa F/O says again "Scab" the Freedom flight fires back "Hope you're happy you losers, we have all your flight information!"

The Captain of the Freedom flight, puts on his best stompin high heels and fires off emails to everyone from top to bottom, and cries his ass off to the Freedom CP saying that the Mesa F/O had created a "hostile work enviroment". And Being a scab isn't creating a hostile work enviroment?

Freedom CP puts in for a suspension/termination of Mesa F/O. Three weeks later, the F/O who had a perfectly clean work record, who had admitted to the story and explained himself was fired.

So this is what Mesa's ALPA MEC has come to? Letting a scab captain and a scab chief pilot tell them what to do?

Considering Mesa is now a Major Airline, would that make Freedom a regional airline? So a Regional CP just got a Major Airline F/O fired?

 

[superrav]

i just had to repond..i've heard of guys doing things a lot worse..and im sure most of you have..and they kept they're jobs..

scab or no scab.....using a freq to make smart remarks gave MGT all the rope they needed to can him. It was misconduct. For crying out loud, why didn't he slit the guy's tires in the parking lot, or key his paint job?

 

[h25b]

i just had to repond..i've heard of guys doing things a lot worse..and im sure most of you have..and they kept they're jobs..

In this case however it was not the act itself that cost him his job, it was the combination of the act and environment in which he performed the act that got him the boot.

For example... Before 9/11 you could pour baking soda in an envelope and mail it to your friend marked "Bio Hazard" as a joke. Now that would get you a few days of interrogation by the FBI.

 

[WSurf]

For example... Before 9/11 you could pour baking soda in an envelope and mail it to your friend marked "Bio Hazard" as a joke. Now that would get you a few days of interrogation by the FBI.

Nice example! Thats really close to the same thing! Too Funny!

 

[h25b]

Nice example! Thats really close to the same thing! Too Funny!

So I guess you'd say that the same thing would've have happened to this FO before the whole Freedom fiasco went down ?? It was an over the top example of how situations can change to cause drastically different results to transpire from the same event..

Thanks, another example of how common sense is wasted when used in the Regionals Forum.

 

[81Horse]

" ...You call him into chief pilots office question him about it, and tell him please don't do it again. Is it unprofessional? Yes! Is it terms for getting fired? Hell No! ...

But if the guy's on probation, they can fire him -- pretty much at will -- and there's little the MEC can do about it. And where was the captain in this incident? Curious to know what his role was during and after.

 

[pianoman]

EVEN IF HE'S ON PROBATION, THE COMPANY CAN ALWAYS FIRE WHOEVER THEY WANT, FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY WANT.

All any union (ALPA, IBT, SWAPA, etc) can do is take it to arbitration and plead the pilot's case for getting his job back. They can help him and give him representation, and hopefully back pay, but they can't stop the initial axe.

 

[81Horse]

True, pianoman.

 

[FN FAL]

If you guys keep acting like truck drivers, management will think you're bucking for a pay raise.

 

[FedEx1]

I didn't say he SHOULD be fired, punished or anything.

I was simply stating that management had a LEGAL reason to boot the guy- as petty and small as it was. They look for things like that! SO just watch yourselves, is all. Sheesh.

 

[81Horse]

I was simply stating that management had a LEGAL reason to boot the guy- as petty and small as it was. They look for things like that! SO just watch yourselves, is all. Sheesh.

Bingo! Their MEC/LEC reps should be telling them this, too. It's hard to retrieve a terminated pilot's job and back pay through grievance and arbitration if he/she did, in fact, give the company cause.

 

[D.sanchez]

Oh, you haven't heard...

You see that is no longer required. In today's new world of kids flying airplanes this is not needed. A scab doesn't have to cross a picket line anymore. Heck, there doesn't even have to be a picket line !!

Sorry, I just noticed that you're having the same problem I was a while back and thought I'd explain it to you.

Thank you h25b for "explaining" the situation to us. Alot of us on these boards have a problem with your explaination. You seem to lack the intellectual capacity to understand that the actions of Freedom A listers or HoJet scum bags rises to the level of scabbing. While I agree the Freedom/Hojet's guys didn't cross a picket line, is it really that difficult to see these people possess a scab mentality? That they act like scabs, stab their fellow pilot's in the back and run to suck on JO's/Hullie's unit? Perhaps the ALPA definition of a scab I've cut and pasted from another post will help you. Think of this next time you "explain" to people that the freedom-a-listers aren't scabs.

ALPA's definition:

A SCAB takes your job, a Job he could not get under normal circumstances. He can only advance himself by taking advantage of labor disputes and
walking over the backs of workers trying to maintain decent wages and working conditions. He helps management to destroy his and your profession,
often ending up under conditions he/she wouldn't even have scabbed for. No matter. A SCAB doesn't think long term, nor does he think of anything other
then himself. His smile shows fangs that drip with your blood, for he willingly destroys families, lives, careers, opportunities and professions at the drop of
a hat. He takes from a striker what he knows he could never earn by his own merit: a decent Job. He steals that which others earned at the bargaining
table through blood, sweat and tears, and throws it away in an instant - ruining lives, jobs and careers.

-Walking over the backs of working trying to maintian decent wages and working conditions.

- Helps management to destroy his and your preofession.

That seams pretty fitting to me.
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[FR8mastr]

Sanchez,

Well said!! I guess this is one time ALPA actually gets it.