Freedom Chief Pilot gets Mesa F/O fired

[thatsux]

Here's the gist of the story.
Freedom flight in front of a Mesa on the ground. Mesa F/O thinks he hears his buddy who was forced to fly on the Freedom side. Mesa F/O says on the radio while on the ground "Scab". No reply. Freedom flight is now well airborne, Mesa F/O says again "Scab" the Freedom flight fires back "Hope you're happy you losers, we have all your flight information!"

The Captain of the Freedom flight, puts on his best stompin high heels and fires off emails to everyone from top to bottom, and cries his ass off to the Freedom CP saying that the Mesa F/O had created a "hostile work enviroment". And Being a scab isn't creating a hostile work enviroment?

Freedom CP puts in for a suspension/termination of Mesa F/O. Three weeks later, the F/O who had a perfectly clean work record, who had admitted to the story and explained himself was fired.

So this is what Mesa's ALPA MEC has come to? Letting a scab captain and a scab chief pilot tell them what to do?

Considering Mesa is now a Major Airline, would that make Freedom a regional airline? So a Regional CP just got a Major Airline F/O fired?

 

[BoilerUP]

Nice cut and paste from Mesalounge, Rhoid. I mean psysix. I mean 8hrrule. I mean tool.

 

[mamba20]

Mesa a major? lol thats rich! who cares if the mesa fo was fired! He was mesa and therefore deserves it for no other reason then that.

Yes, I know this thread is flame bait but I could'nt resist.

 

[MarineGrunt]

What is it they say about the pot and the kettle???

 

[LJDRVR]

Sounds like a karma thing to me.

 

[DX Rick]

Why didn't the MEC do anything? We're they too busy golfing and skiing with JO? AH not hear his cell phone while in line at Fudruckers for his 4th lunch of the day?

 

[A350]

Are you that goofy that you don't even know what the hell is going on?

Freedom is part of Mesa.....even ALPA. Freedom is flying the EMB jets that USAirways dumped for DAL. They used the Freedom certificate to gain flying they couldn't get because of the 90 seaters on the Mesa certificate. A Mesa F/O who calls a fellow pilot who works for Freedom a scab is even dumber than the ones who came up with calling original Freedom pilots scabs.

If this is true, he deserves to be let go.

A350

 

[Beantown]

Are you that goofy that you don't even know what the hell is going on?

Freedom is part of Mesa.....even ALPA. Freedom is flying the EMB jets that USAirways dumped for DAL. They used the Freedom certificate to gain flying they couldn't get because of the 90 seaters on the Mesa certificate. A Mesa F/O who calls a fellow pilot who works for Freedom a scab is even dumber than the ones who came up with calling original Freedom pilots scabs.

If this is true, he deserves to be let go.

A350

Everything written here is dead accurate except I think you are missing one thing. It looks to me that the Mesa FO was trying to ""bust that balls" of a friend of his, the Freedom FO by calling him a scab.(not saying that was a good idea, just the way I read the story) I don't think he really ment it. Of course, the Freedom CA didn't know this and by the time it got strightened out it was in the hands of the idiots at Mesa Mgmt. Mesa's MEC is worthless (and is about to be replaced) -Bean

 

[climbhappy]

scab or no scab.....using a freq to make smart remarks gave MGT all the rope they needed to can him. It was misconduct. For crying out loud, why didn't he slit the guy's tires in the parking lot, or key his paint job?

 

[D.sanchez]

For crying out loud, why didn't he slit the guy's tires in the parking lot, or key his paint job?

That's not a bad idea. If that captain is one of the freedom a list scabs, it's not such a bad idea.

 

[WSurf]

A Mesa F/O who calls a fellow pilot who works for Freedom a scab is even dumber than the ones who came up with calling original Freedom pilots scabs.
A350

Then what was the original Freedom Pilots Called? And why should he have gotten fired? I hear smart sh$t on the radio all the time. Sounds like he hit a spot with that lame arse captain.
This FO should take Legal Action. Well maybe not, AWA is hiring!

 

[Captain X]

I never knew Mesa formed a STRIKE picket line that was crossed.

 

[h25b]

I never knew Mesa formed a STRIKE picket line that was crossed.

Oh, you haven't heard...

You see that is no longer required. In today's new world of kids flying airplanes this is not needed. A scab doesn't have to cross a picket line anymore. Heck, there doesn't even have to be a picket line !!

Sorry, I just noticed that you're having the same problem I was a while back and thought I'd explain it to you.

 

[FedEx1]

Management could easily make the case that this f/o broke the sterile cockpit rule. Sounds silly, but now they have an FAR and the FAA to back them up legally. At any rate it was unprofessional...

At purple, we had a guy get busted for not using his oxygen when the other guy left for the lav. Management only found out about it because something else happened on the flight 4 hours LATER and they listened to the entire CVR. Of course the o2 thing was unrelated- but it didn't matter.

I try not to say anything inside the cockpit, or on the radio, that I wouldn't want the CP to hear.

 

[A350]

Bean:

Well, if this is true, then I guess Mesa management has "had" it with these snide remarks and less than professional attitudes from its own employees. Maybe this pilot had history? It usually isn't just one thing that gets you the boot.

I have said this plenty of times. Without the Freedom certificate, many Mesa pilots would have gotten the boot through furloughs and downgrades. All the EMB flying would have disappeared when USAirways crapcanned them for AWAC. ALPA will never admit it as they are still trying to place blame for the Mesa mess on someone.

ALPA better help this pilot get his job back, as they started this "scab" crap and now it is totally out of control. First it was the original Freedom guys, now it is the G0Jets guys, hell the MDA pilots are even calling some of their own scabs who went to Republic.

I must tell you that when you speak of such things with such terms, it only shows your ignorance to the term and the fact that ALPA sanctioned such behavior only enhances their culpability in this mess we call an industry. There can never be unity in this business between pilot goups when we have the leadership we currently have.

A350

 

[81Horse]

Does Mesa have a probationary period (assuming "yes")? ALPA can't do much for the F/O if he was on probation -- presumably he broke several rules and policies (sterile cockpit, etc.). And worst of all, he got caught.

The tires would have been the way to go, for sure -- if he could have had someone else do it for him. 'Cause who knows? There might be surveillance cameras in the parking lot.

 

[WSurf]

Management could easily make the case that this f/o broke the sterile cockpit rule. Sounds silly, but now they have an FAR and the FAA to back them up legally. At any rate it was unprofessional

What the hell does talking on a radio have anything to do with Sterile Cockpit! The guy clicked on "Said Scab" so what! You call him into chief pilots office question him about it, and tell him please don't do it again. Is it unprofessional? Yes! Is it terms for getting fired? Hell No!
The Mesa pilot Group should be banging on the door and trying to help this guy out. Jeez, you that scared of JO!!!

 

[superrav]

I wondored if you guys had a Alpa MEC..doesnt sound like it...that sucks. U pay your dues..and get shafted..nice.

Here's the gist of the story.
Freedom flight in front of a Mesa on the ground. Mesa F/O thinks he hears his buddy who was forced to fly on the Freedom side. Mesa F/O says on the radio while on the ground "Scab". No reply. Freedom flight is now well airborne, Mesa F/O says again "Scab" the Freedom flight fires back "Hope you're happy you losers, we have all your flight information!"

The Captain of the Freedom flight, puts on his best stompin high heels and fires off emails to everyone from top to bottom, and cries his ass off to the Freedom CP saying that the Mesa F/O had created a "hostile work enviroment". And Being a scab isn't creating a hostile work enviroment?

Freedom CP puts in for a suspension/termination of Mesa F/O. Three weeks later, the F/O who had a perfectly clean work record, who had admitted to the story and explained himself was fired.

So this is what Mesa's ALPA MEC has come to? Letting a scab captain and a scab chief pilot tell them what to do?

Considering Mesa is now a Major Airline, would that make Freedom a regional airline? So a Regional CP just got a Major Airline F/O fired?

 

[superrav]

i just had to repond..i've heard of guys doing things a lot worse..and im sure most of you have..and they kept they're jobs..

scab or no scab.....using a freq to make smart remarks gave MGT all the rope they needed to can him. It was misconduct. For crying out loud, why didn't he slit the guy's tires in the parking lot, or key his paint job?

 

[h25b]

i just had to repond..i've heard of guys doing things a lot worse..and im sure most of you have..and they kept they're jobs..

In this case however it was not the act itself that cost him his job, it was the combination of the act and environment in which he performed the act that got him the boot.

For example... Before 9/11 you could pour baking soda in an envelope and mail it to your friend marked "Bio Hazard" as a joke. Now that would get you a few days of interrogation by the FBI.

 

[WSurf]

For example... Before 9/11 you could pour baking soda in an envelope and mail it to your friend marked "Bio Hazard" as a joke. Now that would get you a few days of interrogation by the FBI.

Nice example! Thats really close to the same thing! Too Funny!

 

[h25b]

Nice example! Thats really close to the same thing! Too Funny!

So I guess you'd say that the same thing would've have happened to this FO before the whole Freedom fiasco went down ?? It was an over the top example of how situations can change to cause drastically different results to transpire from the same event..

Thanks, another example of how common sense is wasted when used in the Regionals Forum.

 

[81Horse]

" ...You call him into chief pilots office question him about it, and tell him please don't do it again. Is it unprofessional? Yes! Is it terms for getting fired? Hell No! ...

But if the guy's on probation, they can fire him -- pretty much at will -- and there's little the MEC can do about it. And where was the captain in this incident? Curious to know what his role was during and after.

 

[pianoman]

EVEN IF HE'S ON PROBATION, THE COMPANY CAN ALWAYS FIRE WHOEVER THEY WANT, FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY WANT.

All any union (ALPA, IBT, SWAPA, etc) can do is take it to arbitration and plead the pilot's case for getting his job back. They can help him and give him representation, and hopefully back pay, but they can't stop the initial axe.

 

[81Horse]

True, pianoman.

 

[FN FAL]

If you guys keep acting like truck drivers, management will think you're bucking for a pay raise.

 

[FedEx1]

I didn't say he SHOULD be fired, punished or anything.

I was simply stating that management had a LEGAL reason to boot the guy- as petty and small as it was. They look for things like that! SO just watch yourselves, is all. Sheesh.

 

[81Horse]

I was simply stating that management had a LEGAL reason to boot the guy- as petty and small as it was. They look for things like that! SO just watch yourselves, is all. Sheesh.

Bingo! Their MEC/LEC reps should be telling them this, too. It's hard to retrieve a terminated pilot's job and back pay through grievance and arbitration if he/she did, in fact, give the company cause.

 

[D.sanchez]

Oh, you haven't heard...

You see that is no longer required. In today's new world of kids flying airplanes this is not needed. A scab doesn't have to cross a picket line anymore. Heck, there doesn't even have to be a picket line !!

Sorry, I just noticed that you're having the same problem I was a while back and thought I'd explain it to you.

Thank you h25b for "explaining" the situation to us. Alot of us on these boards have a problem with your explaination. You seem to lack the intellectual capacity to understand that the actions of Freedom A listers or HoJet scum bags rises to the level of scabbing. While I agree the Freedom/Hojet's guys didn't cross a picket line, is it really that difficult to see these people possess a scab mentality? That they act like scabs, stab their fellow pilot's in the back and run to suck on JO's/Hullie's unit? Perhaps the ALPA definition of a scab I've cut and pasted from another post will help you. Think of this next time you "explain" to people that the freedom-a-listers aren't scabs.

ALPA's definition:

A SCAB takes your job, a Job he could not get under normal circumstances. He can only advance himself by taking advantage of labor disputes and
walking over the backs of workers trying to maintain decent wages and working conditions. He helps management to destroy his and your profession,
often ending up under conditions he/she wouldn't even have scabbed for. No matter. A SCAB doesn't think long term, nor does he think of anything other
then himself. His smile shows fangs that drip with your blood, for he willingly destroys families, lives, careers, opportunities and professions at the drop of
a hat. He takes from a striker what he knows he could never earn by his own merit: a decent Job. He steals that which others earned at the bargaining
table through blood, sweat and tears, and throws it away in an instant - ruining lives, jobs and careers.

-Walking over the backs of working trying to maintian decent wages and working conditions.

- Helps management to destroy his and your preofession.

That seams pretty fitting to me.
​

 

[FR8mastr]

Sanchez,

Well said!! I guess this is one time ALPA actually gets it.