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Voice Of Reason

Reading Is Fundamental !
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Posts
1,369
Release #08.ATA4
June 26, 2008

For Immediate Release
ALPA Helps Secure U.S. Department of Labor Emergency Funds to Put ATA Pilots Back on the Line
Multi-million Dollar Grant to State of Indiana will Hone Crewmembers’ Skills, Aid in Job Search

CHICAGO – Pilot leaders of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA) ATA Airlines unit led a successful campaign with the State of Indiana for the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) to grant ATA cockpit crewmembers emergency funds for re-employment services. Virtually the entire workforce of ATA suddenly found themselves unemployed when ATA shut down on April 3.
The Department of Labor recently announced a grant exceeding $3.5 million to assist hundreds of employees at Indianapolis-based ATA, including more than 100 pilots and flight engineers. The DOL will release almost $1.4 million immediately and make additional funding available as Indiana demonstrates a continued need to serve these workers.
“This news is a ray of hope for the Hoosier-based crewmembers, who were proud to work at ATA,” said Capt. Steve Staples, chairman of ALPA’s ATA pilot group. “It should help a great deal in enabling our members to find new jobs, and especially to help them retrain in new aircraft types. I’m proud that ALPA was able to assist our ATA pilots in this tangible way, because that’s what our labor union is all about.”
The grant, issued to the Indiana Department of Workforce Development (DWD), gives the DWD additional funds to send ATA pilots to flight schools so that they can earn type ratings in more modern aircraft, making them more marketable to airlines seeking pilots.
Many of ATA’s crewmembers are type-rated in older, 1970s-era aircraft like the Lockheed L-1011 and the McDonnell-Douglas DC-10, airplanes that are becoming increasingly rare as airlines shift to newer, more fuel-efficient types. But training for new aircraft systems can cost an unemployed pilot thousands of dollars, often making such training unaffordable without government assistance.
Working with the ALPA Government Affairs Department, Staples urged key congressional leaders to speed the approval of the emergency grant. ALPA staff will coordinate with DWD officials to support ATA crewmembers, helping them to more easily access the Workforce Investment Act funds for training.
Earlier this year ALPA also played a role in working with the State of Hawaii to secure a $5 million emergency grant to assist Hawaiian-based employees of ATA and Aloha Airlines, which both went out of business in the same week.
“On behalf of the ATA pilot group, I’d like to thank Labor Secretary Elaine Chao, DWD Commissioner Teresa Voors, and especially Rep. Andre Carson (D-Ind.) and the entire Indiana congressional delegation for securing these vitally-needed training funds,” Staples said. “I’d also like to thank Sens. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) and Barack Obama (D-Ill.), who initially requested emergency funding from the Department of Labor when ATA shut down in April.”
Staples said his next goal is to secure emergency funding for Illinois-based airline employees. After Indiana, Illinois has more laid-off ATA workers than any other state.
Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world’s largest pilots union, representing 55,000 pilots at 40 airlines in the U.S. and Canada. Visit the ALPA Web site at www.alpa.org for more information.
 
A similar offer has been made to the Aloha pilot group. One big problem is the unavailabilty of training center (sim) time.
 
Think you might need an actual proof of employment before WIC funds are giving to individuals. Could be wrong but that's how it was back in late 2002.
 
Who would hire me with just a type and no experience? I mean besides SWA. They've pretty much told me they ain't gonna hire me.

How 'bout a Citation X? Ya think XO might take a look-see?
 
All I have to say is never kick a gift horse in the mouth. I hope this helps you guys in your time of need.
 
I hope there's that much money available per individual. Seriously.

A Gee- type or a Falcon 2000 EASy, etc, will run you $25,000-35,000, three weeks in hotels and meals, and there's a 12-18 month wait unless you happen to "get lucky" and can jump on a last-minute cancellation.

Last time, they only gave between $1,500 and 3,000 per pilot (Workforce Improvement Act funds). Wasn't even enough to go get a 737 type rating (which everyone and their brother has now).

Incidentally yes, with the type and currency, there are still a dozen or so jobs in the U.S. and about as many overseas that will take you with extensive PIC experience in the 91 or 135 bizjet world.

Coming out of airlines-only background? Not so much...

Best of luck!
 
That's what I was afraid of...


Press Release
The Indiana Department of Workforce Development (DWD) received approval today for a $3.52 million grant to retrain nearly 350 former ATA employees. The National Emergency Grant, from the U.S. Department of Labor, primarily pays tuition costs related to earning an associate degree in information technology, health care or other high-wage, high-demand careers.


“Indiana’s economy provides a variety of diverse career options,” said Teresa Voors, DWD commissioner. “ATA’s former workforce is talented and this program will assist them in making the transition to a new occupation.”


The grant pays up to $6,000 per person for the completion of an associate degree in an approved training program. Funds also will be available for supportive services, such as child care and housing assistance, for those participating in long-term training. Details of the program are currently being finalized and DWD will contact past ATA employees in early July with further details.


Many former ATA employees are already receiving intensive services through WorkOne offices across the state including skills assessment, career counseling, resume development and help finding jobs. This additional funding will allow workers to receive more training.
I'm still trying to figure out the math. $3.52 Million divided by 350 pilots is $10,000 a piece, but only $6,000 is available per person.

Who's pocketing the other $4k?
 
Can't speak to the ATA deal but Aloha pilots would be getting B737,767,777 ratings under their proposed deal with the state of Hawaii.

GV or GEX ratings are in the 50+ range if your just a walk in, which is what would probably be the case here.

UAL has refused to rent sim time to Boeing/Alteon so they train these Aloha pilots. Something in their working agreement allows them to call these shots. To bad as the longer your out of work, the less desireable you become to an employer.

Maybe ALPA national could put some pressure on the UAL MEC to help out their fellow airman?
 
Who would hire me with just a type and no experience? I mean besides SWA. They've pretty much told me they ain't gonna hire me.

How 'bout a Citation X? Ya think XO might take a look-see?

Halin,

There are PLENTY of corporate/charter jobs that would LOVE to hire someone with a zero-time-type. No initial required for them to hire you - only a PC.

-fate
 
Release #08.ATA4
June 26, 2008

For Immediate Release
ALPA Helps Secure U.S. Department of Labor Emergency Funds to Put ATA Pilots Back on the Line
Multi-million Dollar Grant to State of Indiana will Hone Crewmembers’ Skills, Aid in Job Search

CHICAGO – Pilot leaders of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA) ATA Airlines unit led a successful campaign with the State of Indiana for the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) to grant ATA cockpit crewmembers emergency funds for re-employment services. Virtually the entire workforce of ATA suddenly found themselves unemployed when ATA shut down on April 3.
The Department of Labor recently announced a grant exceeding $3.5 million to assist hundreds of employees at Indianapolis-based ATA, including more than 100 pilots and flight engineers. The DOL will release almost $1.4 million immediately and make additional funding available as Indiana demonstrates a continued need to serve these workers.
“This news is a ray of hope for the Hoosier-based crewmembers, who were proud to work at ATA,” said Capt. Steve Staples, chairman of ALPA’s ATA pilot group. “It should help a great deal in enabling our members to find new jobs, and especially to help them retrain in new aircraft types. I’m proud that ALPA was able to assist our ATA pilots in this tangible way, because that’s what our labor union is all about.”
The grant, issued to the Indiana Department of Workforce Development (DWD), gives the DWD additional funds to send ATA pilots to flight schools so that they can earn type ratings in more modern aircraft, making them more marketable to airlines seeking pilots.
Many of ATA’s crewmembers are type-rated in older, 1970s-era aircraft like the Lockheed L-1011 and the McDonnell-Douglas DC-10, airplanes that are becoming increasingly rare as airlines shift to newer, more fuel-efficient types. But training for new aircraft systems can cost an unemployed pilot thousands of dollars, often making such training unaffordable without government assistance.
Working with the ALPA Government Affairs Department, Staples urged key congressional leaders to speed the approval of the emergency grant. ALPA staff will coordinate with DWD officials to support ATA crewmembers, helping them to more easily access the Workforce Investment Act funds for training.
Earlier this year ALPA also played a role in working with the State of Hawaii to secure a $5 million emergency grant to assist Hawaiian-based employees of ATA and Aloha Airlines, which both went out of business in the same week.
“On behalf of the ATA pilot group, I’d like to thank Labor Secretary Elaine Chao, DWD Commissioner Teresa Voors, and especially Rep. Andre Carson (D-Ind.) and the entire Indiana congressional delegation for securing these vitally-needed training funds,” Staples said. “I’d also like to thank Sens. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) and Barack Obama (D-Ill.), who initially requested emergency funding from the Department of Labor when ATA shut down in April.”
Staples said his next goal is to secure emergency funding for Illinois-based airline employees. After Indiana, Illinois has more laid-off ATA workers than any other state.
Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world’s largest pilots union, representing 55,000 pilots at 40 airlines in the U.S. and Canada. Visit the ALPA Web site at www.alpa.org for more information.

Well done ALPA.

Capt Steve Staples. I wonder if he was the ALPA-N guy who advised TWA during the AA/TWA merger?
 
It was a joke about his last name.

A priest, a rabbi and a rabbit walk into a bar .....
 
So only democrats should be allowed to get gubment aid? I guess since you Dems have lived your entire life with your hand out you now must feel entitled.
 
Im just a dumb regional pilot, but does getting types really help securing a new job....or is it just a free parting gift?

I hope it does though.
 
Flew corporate for awhile, maybe others can chime in. Getting a G-IV/V/GLEX rating but having no experience will not get you far. Caveat; if you have thousands of hours of international PIC experience in heavy jets, different story. But with out that, just a type will get you nowhere IMHO. You'd be better off going to one of these operators and getting on a smaller a/c (Lear, Citation, Westwind, etc..) then being promoted within the organization to a larger a/c. Any other comments from Charter/corporate guys?

I'd just get the B737 rating....probably gives ya a better shot at SWA in the future.
 
Flew corporate for awhile, maybe others can chime in. Getting a G-IV/V/GLEX rating but having no experience will not get you far. Caveat; if you have thousands of hours of international PIC experience in heavy jets, different story. But with out that, just a type will get you nowhere IMHO. You'd be better off going to one of these operators and getting on a smaller a/c (Lear, Citation, Westwind, etc..) then being promoted within the organization to a larger a/c. Any other comments from Charter/corporate guys?

I'd just get the B737 rating....probably gives ya a better shot at SWA in the future.
Having been both routes, I have to wholeheartedly DISagree with this opinion.

See 737 type to left. NO guarantee of Southwest job...

SEVERAL companies hiring right now for GIV, GV, G350/450, F50/F900, F2000/2000EX/2000EASy positions that REQUIRE the type rating but have no minimum time in type. I've spoken directly to recruiters at some of these positions, and they'll happily take on an SIC with zero time in type but who HAS the type, simply because it dramatically lowers their costs AND time lag to get someone scheduled and done with class (up to a year or more).

Get 8-12 months of SIC time in the airplane (250+ hours) and, if you have extensive PIC time in other transport-category jets, upgrade comes quickly (depending on company) or you're qualified for any number of PIC positions.

That said, the LAST thing I want to see is more people buying a type rating for a job. It makes it harder for those of us already in the charter/corporate world and makes employers think that never paying for a type rating is an acceptable practice. Kind of makes me glad they're only giving people $6k or so, prohibits most people from buying a bizjet type.

As far as getting on with a charter or corporate operator who has smaller and larger jets and moving up, I'd get it in writing BEFORE you take the job. In this environment, fewer people will be leaving those larger bizjet positions and, as mentioned earlier, they have a BIG tendency to hire direct-entry pilots already typed and current in those larger aircraft to save them the $20-$40k+ to type someone. Been there, seen that... repeatedly.
 
Good thing those morons on the East voted out ALPA for all of US/AWA... I wonder what USCABA will get all of the furloughs here, besides a swift kick in the nuts.
 
i takes wht ebr dey gimme and then i'm goin' for more cheese...WORK is for Foolz.

dum azz liberals.

love,

YKMKR

P.S. - Voting for McCain, I am a total Hypocrite. Sorry, but..."Greed Is Good." F.U. All... I'm getting a Type in an IL-62. Because I CAN. And these Gubmint Tit-Sucking Soccer Mom's who run this kRaP won't even know the difference! God Bless Amerika!
 
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i takes wht ebr dey gimme and then i'm goin' for more cheese...WORK is for Foolz.

dum azz liberals.

love,

YKMKR

P.S. - Voting for McCain, I am a total Hippocrite. Sorry, but..."Greed Is Good." F.U. All.

That's usually what is comes down to for the conservatives.

Them: "I'm against the government doing anything. Cut my taxes!"

Me: So how many of your grandparents/parents collect social security?

Them: All of them

Me: And they're all on Medicare/Medicaid too?

Them: Well, ya.

Me: And the last time you were furloughed you collected unemployment and got that type rating paid for by the government?

Them: Well, ya. But I deserve it.

Hypocrisy
 
I had to edit that there "Hippocrite" thang...Dang, that's a hard word!

Did I finally get it right?

All I know is this:

- If I gots the Money....You can't have it.

- If you gots the Money...I want it.

I believe we call this "Situational Ethics".

Hypocrisy is Good.

Get out of my way while I send money for food relief, and then cave your skull in because you ( NOT "YOU" as in the previous Poster, just the general "YOU".) eat food that should be MINE.

Survival belongs to the FIT. Sorry, It's that "Food Chain" thing....I will strangle you to get what I perceive to be MINE.

Sort of like Airline Pilots.....

Love,

YKMKR
 
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Having been both routes, I have to wholeheartedly DISagree with this opinion.

See 737 type to left. NO guarantee of Southwest job...

SEVERAL companies hiring right now for GIV, GV, G350/450, F50/F900, F2000/2000EX/2000EASy positions that REQUIRE the type rating but have no minimum time in type. I've spoken directly to recruiters at some of these positions, and they'll happily take on an SIC with zero time in type but who HAS the type, simply because it dramatically lowers their costs AND time lag to get someone scheduled and done with class (up to a year or more).

Get 8-12 months of SIC time in the airplane (250+ hours) and, if you have extensive PIC time in other transport-category jets, upgrade comes quickly (depending on company) or you're qualified for any number of PIC positions.

That said, the LAST thing I want to see is more people buying a type rating for a job. It makes it harder for those of us already in the charter/corporate world and makes employers think that never paying for a type rating is an acceptable practice. Kind of makes me glad they're only giving people $6k or so, prohibits most people from buying a bizjet type.

As far as getting on with a charter or corporate operator who has smaller and larger jets and moving up, I'd get it in writing BEFORE you take the job. In this environment, fewer people will be leaving those larger bizjet positions and, as mentioned earlier, they have a BIG tendency to hire direct-entry pilots already typed and current in those larger aircraft to save them the $20-$40k+ to type someone. Been there, seen that... repeatedly.

Actually Lear, if we have a written conditional employment offer on company letterhead, I was told they'll pay for any bizjet type - GLEX, G-IV, G-V, Citation, whatever... or if you are 55+ and considered too old to start over at another airline.

For everyone else, they're pushing 737 types, or if you were already typed, other airliner types.

It's the chicken and egg argument. We'll see how it all plays out...
 

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