FRAC Overnights

CCDiscoB

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It seems, from what I've been reading here, that when you guys RON, it strickly for pilot rest. If it's your 4th leg of the day and you are taking a high roller to Vegas, can you get excited about spending more than 12 hours there? Or is the company expecting you at 0 dark 30 to fly away to pick some else up? What fun is spending 7 days away from home if you can't have a beer with dinner? What's the longest layover you've had?
 

Diesel

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It varies by fleet but I can say in the ultra the overnights are for rest and that's about it. You can probably get some time if you broke down but going out and having a beer is not really in the cards. Your available after your 10hrs which violates are operations manual that says you have to have 12hrs bottle to throttle.

You can get some good overnights in sat, mke, gso and stuff like that because they are all service centers but they could always have another plane there.

Sure we go out and get some good dinners but in the ultra your too tired. Everyone else in different fleets have different experiecnes. Like in the 2000 your on 1 off 1 so on.

Hope this helps.
 

SOFHercDude

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speaking as a guy thats (no **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**e) had "2 turnin' and 2 burnin" and ended up 40 feet underwater (it only floats for about 3 steps towards the hatch), lookin for a job that fits your lifestyle ain't a bad idea. You never now when that lifestyle may take a sudden turn for .... conclusion.

Have fun now, its only a job !
 

cgmason1

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The Hawker Fleet is a little more laid back.
I have had a quite a few trips where I have spent more than one day in one place. Also if I am dropping off or picking up at a Hawker maintenance base-you can usually count on some free time.
I have also had trips where 10 hours and your back at it-so even if you are on stand by-after 10 hours you have to be ready to go ASAP. I believe the Gulfstreams and the BBJ stay places for allot longer than most of the other NetJets fleets.

Fly Safe
Chuck
 

.92wshn1.92

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Posted by Diesel
The overnights are for rest and that's about it. You can probably get some time if you broke down but going out and having a beer is not really in the cards. Your available after your 10hrs which violates are operations manual that says you have to have 12hrs bottle to throttle.
Careful buddy you keep blowing sunshine up these guys butts like this and the majors won't be able to get any pilots cuz they'll be in line for Netjets. But seriously this is one of the criticisms I have with Netjets, the Union and some of the pilots I fly with. I don't have to drink every day, but to not be able to have a beer on the road EVER is criminal. BTW recent a crew got fired for declining a trip due to having a drink with dinner (they thought they had a late how, but got an asap at o'dark ugly) It's not just the drinking thing you also said:
Sure we go out and get some good dinners but [you're] too tired.
I have a huge problem with this. For those of you who don't know anything about the life of a frac pilot here it is. 12 hours prior to your first day of work until midnight on the last day your butt is the company's. They may or may not tell you what you're doing the next day but it really doesn't matter, because it can change and often does so for all practical purposes you can work at all hours of the day for 14 hours in a row every day until you cry Uncle.

Now before you blast me I for the most part knew this before I signed on and I do what is expected of me - it's our job. BUT do I think this arrangement is optimal - no. Do I think this could/should be improved on - yes. Do I think you're an idiot for saying this is the best job in the world and nothing needs to change and anyone who thinks otherwise should leave - yes.
 

justadumbpilot

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Wow - sounds like you love your job! I like beer as much(or more) than anybody else but geez dude - I don't consider having to go without one for a few days as 'criminal'!


You say it's not a perfect job - for you it may not be - maybe for Diesel or some other NJA pilots it is. Just depends on the individual.

I bet you're a joy to share a cockpit with for 7 days! Maybe you should go back to your regional!

JADP
 

.92wshn1.92

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justadumbpilot said:
I bet you're a joy to share a cockpit with for 7 days! Maybe you should go back to your regional!
I knew I'd get slammed, I guess I deserve it - I suppose this is the wrong forum. I was just trying to give people a different point of view, maybe I went too far. I will say though and thought I did, I like it at Netjets and believe it or not I try to maintain a positive attitude when I'm on the road - the catering usually helps me do that. BUT and I guess I'll make this my last comment for awhile I can and have found good things in all jobs I've had, but I'm of the understanding that Nejets is going for career level not just a temp job. If that's true a lot could change.
 

Diesel

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Careful buddy you keep blowing sunshine up these guys butts like this and the majors won't be able to get any pilots cuz they'll be in line for Netjets. by .92whishn1.92

What's with you man? Honestly. Sure I want a beer at the end of a long day but I do realize that they can call me in 10hrs and i will be technically wrong.

First of all I think 14/10 is wrong I'll only do it twice and then I put a stop to it. It's for the safety and the company realizes this.

Where am I blowing sunshine. Everyone knows that the ultra is the workhorse. I've had some great overnight like being stuck in the islands for a couple of days, and in mexico with a broke plane.

The fact is they work us here, it's no secret. I can do without a drink for 6 days especially if my job is on the line. Was that 1 beer really worth it? I don't think so. Once they change the rules which might be in the next contract i'll stick with the safe side.

Friends of mine in different fleets have different experiences but all i can talk about is the ultra.
 

charley varrick

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12 hours prior to your first day of work until midnight on the last day your butt is the company's.

I'm curious about this. When you go to start your stretch after, let say three days off, how DO you find out what you're doing on Day One? Can they really call you twelve hours into your last day off? and, more importantly, are you suppossed to be contactable during that time? Seems to me this might dilute your thirteen off, assuming three blocks of trips, to eleven-and-a-half. Do you find this fatiguing, or does it seem like enough time at home? When discussing NetJets with my wife, she finds it disconcerting that your schedules can never get better than thirteen or fourteen "known" days off a month, even after you've become senior.
 

NJA Capt

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charley varrick said:


Can they really call you twelve hours into your last day off? and, more importantly, are you supposed to be contactable during that time?

No, you don't have to be contactable until 12:01am on your first day.

No, they can't schedule you to work before 12:01am.
He was referring to company policy of not drinking within 12 hours of duty. Therefore, if you get called at 12:01am for duty and you drank within the last 12 hours, you're busted.

When discussing NetJets with my wife, she finds it disconcerting that your schedules can never get better than thirteen or fourteen "known" days off a month, even after you've become senior.

More than 14 days off per month? How much do you need?
 
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CCDiscoB

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Slight Overreaction

Please tell me Net Jet pilots are not like this guy.

I read in another post about dirinking on the road and what good is an overnight if you can't have a beer with your dinner. What the F#(*$ over? If you need to have a beer with your dinner or your life is not gonna be the same then maybe you should re-evaluate your life and your goals and character for that matter.


This was hidden in another thread. He continued to go off. This guy strikes me as one of those Sky Nazi geeks that everyone rolls their eyes at.
 

gump88

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Please tell me that all military pilots are not like this guy?!?!?



CCDiscoB said:
:mad: Some of you civilians crack me up. You guys take life a little too seriously. Nice job hiding your weak response from a topic in another thread in this thread. Are you afraid of hammered by responses? You totally pissed me off with what you wrote. Do you really think that guys can’t do without a beer at dinner? Of course we can. It was a simple @#$%en question about the length of layovers. Are you saying you never had a beer with dinner, you f@#$en hypocrite? Who the hell do you think you are saying that I need re-evaluate my goals and character? Guess what, stop-loss is over, all of my military buddies are coming to work with you. It won’t take long for us to find the “tool in the shed,” and when you apply with a major, the word will be out.

This was hidden in another thread and he continues to shoot his mouth off. I hope he is an exception to the rule.

gump:D
 

sweptwingz

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NJA quality of life = fleet type

I can't emphasize enough that NJA RON quality of life is fleet specific.
When I was an Ultra driver, 12-14 hour days, with 4-7 legs, and 10
hour turns- show at "legal", were the NORM.

In the C-650 (VII), a 2-3 leg day is normal. One leg days are common.
A 12-14 hour overnight (or longer) is the norm.

Get some senority, and get the @#$%!! out of the Ultra. There is a very
valid reason why all of the Ultra PIC bids are unfilled, and the company
is having to hire pilots right into the C-560.

The Ultra is a great airplane, but Netjets runs it like a commuter.
 
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FL450

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True, a lot of it depends on the fleet you're in. Another factor is how you choose to budget your time to take advantage of opportunities as they are presented. Sometime being a "door clicker" has its place, especially after a 14 hr day with minimum rest the night before,(most likely several in a row), or a scheduled early am show. Learning how to budget the guaranteed 10 hours is the key most times, above and beyond that is gravy!;)
 

CCDiscoB

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I'm really glad I asked this question. I learned a lot about the FRAC business. I do regret associating beer with a layover. I knew it would turn into an Alcoholic’s Anonymous issue. Although I know many you would have a drink if the layover was greater than 12 hours. Anyway, 14-hour days followed by 10 hours off for 7 days in a row, that’s a very demanding work schedule and all for $40K a year. I’ve got to give NetJets management credit, to make money in today’s economy you’ve got to work your people.
 

sweptwingz

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It can be a lot worse...

CCDiscoB, if you want to really get educated, talk to some of the
scheduled commuter drivers who can do 10-12 legs a day, with
(stand-up) reduced rest, overnights, while flying 80-90 hours a
month. Oh yeah....many of those pilots do it for 21K a year or less.
I was once one of those miserable wretches. I must have been
insane.
I now average about 25 hours a month and will make about
70K this year. Underpaid? Sure. But for now it sure beats
hanging dry-wall.
I WILL agree with you that any company that can trust their pilots
with the keys to 15 million worth of turbine equipment, should trust
them enough to know when to have (or not have) a cold one.
It's like the random urine tests. The FAA confirms that less than
1/2 of 1 percent tested show positive. Read: There is NO DRUG
PROBLEM among professional pilots.

I for one, am very tired of not being trusted. Punish the criminals,
not the law abiding citizens.
 
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8vATE

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Not sure where the one poster comes up with commuters
flying 10-12 legs... 4-7 legs a day unless you're doing some
sort of island shuttle maybe.....the 21,000 a year is not far off
for starters though...

Comair,ASA,Skywest,Eagle and to a lesser degree Mesa,ACA
are decent jobs that will get you in to a Small Jet with decent
schedules and top you out at somewhere in the 60-90 dollar an
hour range... the standup continuous duty stuff is awful though..
Comair seems to do a lot of that...

Anyways... the fractionals seem to be a good option that will
get better as working conditions/productivity issues get
evened out...

If you want to drink get on at SWA... "Party Central" as told
by a buddy over there...

Thanks for the info from you guys at the Fractionals..
Keep it coming...
 
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