FOs logging PIC

[rogerwilcoout]

I am bored.

 

[bizzum]

I am bored.

Me too

 

[ajhbubs84]

Put this thread to sleep. Those logging PIC from the right seat are going to continue to do what they "think is right." How they interpret the FARs or any other form of information they have received is going to catch up with them in the long run. It's their logbook, their careers.

 

[taters]

Let me guess.....this knucklehead is either with SkysWorst or ASA....I can't believe he would even attempt this. Boy, if he shows up with that logged as PIC he will get nailed in an interview. They will chew him up big time.

Actually no it wont because of Delta Connection Academy..they Gurantee and interview and if you go there it means your going to fly for Delta someday

 

[AC560]

How they interpret the FARs

If the FAR's didn't allow for logging it why would Southwest and others list their definition of PIC? Not saying it is good practice for getting a job but I don't think it is a FAR violation.

PS If I listen to channel 9 and have an ATP can I log it as PIC?

 

[Sawmill]

Flyf15:
Just dont listen to all these guys on here giving you $hit. To be safe however, have your Captains wear foggles when you are PF so you can log it as PIC. When he is PIC, then you wear the foggles allowing him/her to log all the time as PIC and SIC while you log it only as SIC. I read that in the FARs just to make sure I had it right. Oh, and one more thing, when you are the PIC, tell your Capt's to do the walk-arounds (make sure they remove their foggles though). Hope this helps.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

PS If I listen to channel 9 and have an ATP can I log it as PIC?

Yeah, as long as no one else is watching, otherwise you'd have to log it as SIC.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I've got plenty of Kleenex time.

Who's hiring?!?



.

 

[acaTerry]

For the first time in my Flightinfo life, I am speechless. I can't believe this thread. I just don't know what to say.

 

[FO 4 Life]

Sec. 121.385 Composition of flight crew.

(a) No certificate holder may operate an airplane with less than the
minimum flight crew in the airworthiness certificate or the airplane
Flight Manual approved for that type airplane and required by this part
for the kind of operation being conducted.
(b) In any case in which this part requires the performance of two
or more functions for which an airman certificate is necessary, that
requirement is not satisfied by the performance of multiple functions at
the same time by one airman.
(c) The minimum pilot crew is two pilots and the certificate holder
shall designate one pilot as pilot in command and the other second in
command.

So I'm bored on my layover. All airlines are controlled by their specific Ops Specs as approved by the FAA. Read your company's and see if you can log PIC. Nothing in Part 1, 61 or what I've posted above supercedes the Ops Specs.

 

[Windsor]

But, really, who doesn't have 250 PIC by the time they have 1500 hours, or do I not want to know?

They are called PFT'ers. They work at very highly respected companies. *Cough Cough*

 

[pgcfii2002]

If I am an FO sitting in the rear lav can I log that as PIC??

 

[AC560]

If I am an FO sitting in the rear lav can I log that as PIC??

If you are the sole manipulator of the toilet paper.

 

[pgcfii2002]

Hahahahahaha

Blue Juice!!!!

 

[down2mins]

This thread is natural selection at it's finest...

 

[CFIse]

Sec. 121.385 Composition of flight crew.

(a) No certificate holder may operate an airplane with less than the
minimum flight crew in the airworthiness certificate or the airplane
Flight Manual approved for that type airplane and required by this part
for the kind of operation being conducted.
(b) In any case in which this part requires the performance of two
or more functions for which an airman certificate is necessary, that
requirement is not satisfied by the performance of multiple functions at
the same time by one airman.
(c) The minimum pilot crew is two pilots and the certificate holder
shall designate one pilot as pilot in command and the other second in
command.

So I'm bored on my layover. All airlines are controlled by their specific Ops Specs as approved by the FAA. Read your company's and see if you can log PIC. Nothing in Part 1, 61 or what I've posted above supercedes the Ops Specs.

Excellent quote - wonderful stuff. If you could just take a few extra minutes and find us the quote from Part 121 about LOGGING time then we'll all be happy and can go home. This quote is about ACTING as PIC and SIC, and I don't think anybody is arguing about who is who. The question is about LOGGING PIC, and that's a different question. If you don't understand that very basic fact about the regulations then you need to step aside from this thread, because you're very badly confused.

The FAA wouldn't have written 61.51 if logging and acting were the same thing, but they did, proving that they are not the same thing. All kinds of people get to log PIC time when not acting as PIC, instructors being one area. I'm sure all the advocates of only logging what you need for you airline job never logged ANY of their single engine time - because it seems to me that the job *I* want requires multi, turbine, PIC time, so clearly that's all I should be logging. If I just go around pretending that all that SE time I have was PIC as well, that's just wrong, it's unethical, and somebody at an airline interview is going to get all upset because I logged this PIC time that they aren't interested in as a qualification for the job. What is the world coming to!

 

[acaTerry]

So how can you log something that you are not performing?

 

[acaTerry]

And while I'm at it, just how can a pilot ethically log PIC when they are in command of...nothing. Sorry kids, it just aint right.

 

[acaTerry]

And another thing,
Why don't you just claim to be serving baked potatoes when all you did was serve up tater tots. After all, the ingredients list on the bag DOES say "potatoes"

 

[skiandsurf]

Pilot in Command (PIC), Second in Command (SIC).

Pilot Flying (PF), Pilot Not Flying (PNF).


There should only be 1 PIC in the flightdeck. That PIC may be the PF or the PNF. There should also be a SIC on the flight deck. The SIC may be the PF or the PNF, but not the PIC.

Just because you are an SIC and the PF, does not make you the PIC.

 

[taters]

can I log Microsoft flight sim time as PIC? it says "as real as it gets" on the box....whoever started this thread is a RETARD

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Sorry, has to be said.

can I log Microsoft flight sim time as PIC? it says "as real as it gets" on the box....whoever started this thread is a RETARD

Hey buddy, you've not even surpassed the 1K mark and according to your profile probably don't fly in a crew environment either. So it's quite bold of you to call him a RETARD.

There is some inherent ambiguity in the regs. between logging PIC in a 91 and 121 operation. The original poster was making some honest inquiries as he crosses over into the world of a typed crew. What he asked for was some clarification, not to be told he's a RETARD.

Geeez. The ego on some folks around here.



.

 

[tscarecrow]

I have written proof from a 121 carrier POI that under 61.159 it's legal with the PIC's endorsement in your logbook. I also have extensive documentation backing this up for anyone who wants to waste their time reading it.

 

[Lear Wanna Be]

Dude, you log everything above FL180 as "actual" IFR, right? After all you are required to be on an IFR flight plan and the ground is far away. Hard to navigate by anything other than sole reference to the instruments way up there.

You also log every landing because you were on the flight deck and part of the crew, right? Regardless of being the PF or PNF, don't you?

So why not PIC when you are just the SIC? Wait, did I say you were the SIC...hmmm.

Just another reason I don't take the regionals when I travel. Low pay and low IQ are a bad combination. Sorry to all the hard working, reasonably intelligent regional guys.

Who says flaimbait can't be fun?!?!?!

 

[COOPERVANE]

If the FAR's didn't allow for logging it why would Southwest and others list their definition of PIC?

The FAR'S don't allow it but so many morons were coming in and trying to pass off SIC time as PIC they had to clarify it.

Do you see the pattern here from the above threads? Do you think you know better than the guys that have been doing this for many many years? How about the interviewers. I guess you can try and argue with them. All I can say is good luck.

Again, I feel a little embarassed by this thread. Bottom line is log anything how you want, just be prepared for someone like me to send you home.

 

[zawillif]

For the first time in my Flightinfo life, I am speechless. I can't believe this thread. I just don't know what to say.

I know. I made a comment similar about 3 pages ago and yet it continues. What really makes you wonder is that all these people formulating arguments are the same people flying who are actually flying airplanes. . . . amazing.

 

[zawillif]

Good work FlyF15. Best thread yet.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

.....

 

[peter185]

After reading this thread I am pretty sure that I am going to be terrified next time I am getting on a Regional Jet, mainly because there is the possibility that people that are this dumb could be in the cockpit of the airplane. This is the kind of stuff that makes the honest people out there want to be involved in the hiring process to ensure that these people don't get hired at there airline.

 

[Going2Baja]

FlyF15, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.