FOs logging PIC

[flyf15]

So the thread about actual IFR logging prompted me to ask this question. I am a CRJ FO... I've been logging SIC time when I'm the pilot not flying and PIC time when I'm the pilot flying, due to the fact that I'm the sole manipulator of the controls. Does everyone else do it this way too? What are all of your viewpoints on this?

Further, the captain always logs PIC right? And we both can log PIC time at the same time because two crewmembers are required... right? Just like safety pilot stuff back in the private pilot days!

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

That's exactly how I got my 1000 PIC so quickly. It's amazing how many morons out there let this loophole slip by them.

 

[Alchemy]

You will probably be laughted out of your upgrade oral if you show up with all your FO time logged as PIC.

I strontly reccomend that you only log right seat time as SIC time, even if you are a type rated ATP. If you are joking, I fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

 

[cwebster2]

so you're one of the suckers that bought thier CRJ type to get a job?

 

[rickair7777]

So the thread about actual IFR logging prompted me to ask this question. I am a CRJ FO... I've been logging SIC time when I'm the pilot not flying and PIC time when I'm the pilot flying, due to the fact that I'm the sole manipulator of the controls. Does everyone else do it this way too? What are all of your viewpoints on this?

NO, NO, NO! Is this a joke?

The PIC is:

1) The person designated as such on the release
2) Must have a PIC type rating
3) In 121 operations, must have completed that airline's upgrade training.

This will alwys be the captain. If two captains are flying together, one will designated as PIC on the release.

It is theoretically possible but highly unlikely that an FO could log PIC if:
1) The flight was a 91 repo
2) The FO had a PIC type
3) The captain and the company agreed to let you do it...

 

[LanceAir]

I don't think so dude....part 121 is a whole different ballgame than the 91 safety pilot stuff. Your capt is listed as the PIC, he signs his name on the release. Sitting right seat and being the sole manipulator of the controls doesn't earn you PIC time. Just to stress the point, 121 requires an ATP to be PIC...do you have an ATP?

 

[Windsor]

Hells yeah you can do it!!! Nobody looks at your logbooks anyway. Just pencil in all that time as PIC.

 

[Edge540]

So the thread about actual IFR logging prompted me to ask this question. I am a CRJ FO... I've been logging SIC time when I'm the pilot not flying and PIC time when I'm the pilot flying, due to the fact that I'm the sole manipulator of the controls. Does everyone else do it this way too? What are all of your viewpoints on this?

Further, the captain always logs PIC right? And we both can log PIC time at the same time because two crewmembers are required... right? Just like safety pilot stuff back in the private pilot days!

That is a terrible idea. Pull out the eraser. You're not flying Cessnas anymore.

 

[microbrewst]

That's exactly how I got my 1000 PIC so quickly. It's amazing how many morons out there let this loophole slip by them.

not flaming you at all, just letting you know, there is NO loophole. you are going to be sorely disappointed either at you upgrade or at your next interview. i sure hope you're joking.

 

[Hawker dude]

So the thread about actual IFR logging prompted me to ask this question. I am a CRJ FO... I've been logging SIC time when I'm the pilot not flying and PIC time when I'm the pilot flying, due to the fact that I'm the sole manipulator of the controls. Does everyone else do it this way too? What are all of your viewpoints on this?

Further, the captain always logs PIC right? And we both can log PIC time at the same time because two crewmembers are required... right? Just like safety pilot stuff back in the private pilot days!

are you really this stupid? or trying to screw with people?

maybe you are some dork as$ Riddle pilot. I have 200 hrs. give me a job. I will pay $90,000 for my job and only make $18,000 yeah, but I can fly a little jet. yeah.

 

[flyf15]

I don't see why you guys are making fun of me for going to riddle and buying my job... I didn't do either. I'm just getting some good quality jet PIC time, thats all. Why the anger towards me?

 

[Edge540]

I'm just getting some good quality jet PIC time, thats all. Why the anger towards me?

It's official. He's a jackass.

 

[Sticky]

maybe you are some dork as$ Riddle pilot. I have 200 hrs. give me a job. I will pay $90,000 for my job and only make $18,000 yeah, but I can fly a little jet. yeah.

First of all, no one at riddle pays 90,000 for a job. They pay 120,000 for a 4 year degree with a declared major in aviation. What they do with the degree is up to them. Yes, some airlines start a new hires at 18,000. However, the goal is ten years later to be in heavier equipment making 80-100K. Students at U of F in Gainesville are forking out 120,000 also for careers that max out at 80-100K after 30 years. Apples to apples...it's not so bad.

 

[Dilligaff]

Seriously, we need to acknowledge something here: Windsor, Edge and Sticky have some bangin' avatars! Thanks guys!

Dilligaff

 

[FlySacto]

Seriously, we need to acknowledge something here: Windsor, Edge and Sticky have some bangin' avatars! Thanks guys!

Dilligaff

After looking at Edge's aviatar for about fifteen minutes I thought I saw a bottle in her right hand. Where can I get a larger picture to more closely examine the label?

 

[Brasilia Flyer]

Think about the logic. Pilot In Command. . . If you're the FO, and designated as the "flying pilot", and the $hit hits the fan, who's in charge. Who's in command. You? The Captain?

I'm pretty easy going with my FO's, but when it starts going downhill, and getting ugly, I'm the one calling the shots. I hope my FO's give me their input, but the final decisions are mine, and I'm the one who will account for them. Regardless of who's manipulating the controls.

 

[vectorvictor]

It's all PIC time. Just log it and you'll be fine.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Yea might as well log run-ups and repos as flight time while your at it.
I knew a captain who logged 1,000 hours PIC time in 8 months using this method, now they're at a major not sure how that loophole got by in the interview.

And since your filed under an IFR flight plan then you can log the whole flight as actual.

So if your captain asks you to take the controls for a second while he scratches his balls, don't forget to through that 0.1 PIC time in the ol' logbook.

Seriously it's alot easier to log what you'd like, but at the end of the day, deep down you know it's wrong. If you are serious about doing the right thing you should contact your flight training dept or chief pilots office.

 

[Headfake14]

3 Southwest Airlines defines "Pilot in Command" for the purposes of application for employment as the Pilot ultimately responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight. The Pilot in Command should also be the Pilot who signed for the aircraft and who is the ultimate authority for the operation of that flight. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot In Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander, Evaluator, or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft.


Taken from Southwest's application site.

You'll get your PIC soon enough. Don't d!ck up your log book by logging right seat time as PIC. The few times I had to fly right seat after I was captian, I still had to log SIC.

NO major/legacy airline will accept any SIC time as some weird version of PIC time.

 

[rogerwilcoout]

Let me guess.....this knucklehead is either with SkysWorst or ASA....I can't believe he would even attempt this. Boy, if he shows up with that logged as PIC he will get nailed in an interview. They will chew him up big time.

 

[Fins Up]

Headfake14 has it right.

When you apply for a job, the application will usually state exactly what that company considers PIC. There are a few out there that use the 'sole manipulator' criteria but most use ultimate authority i.e. signed for the aircraft.

Don't try to slide one by somebody or it may come back to haunt you. If you keep an electronic logbook you could always keep numbers using both methods so you don't have to go back and re-calculate several years of numbers for an application.

 

[n32jk]

I don't see why you guys are making fun of me for going to riddle and buying my job... I didn't do either. I'm just getting some good quality jet PIC time, thats all. Why the anger towards me?

Ok,

I am going to bite on this one and assume you are serious and not planting flamebait. Look at the posts above without profanity or bashes. If you are flying for a 121 or commuter operation that requires two pilots, here is the deal. YOU ABSOLUTELY CANNOT LOG THIS TIME AS PIC. If you do you, do not put that on a application for a certificate. THAT MIGHT END UP AS FALSIFYING A FEDERAL RECORD. Bad stuff. We had some folks pad their time for upgrade. Company just fired them. FAA fried them...... as in revocation of all certificates.

As someone stated above. PT 121 calls for someone to be DESIGNATED as PIC he darn well better meet all the FAA's and (operator's) certificate holders requirements. The only time someone who is not the listed PIC can log PIC time is if he is a check airman flying in that capacity.

Dig out that eraser before you find yourself in a world of trouble.....

YOU ARE NOT GETTING QUALITY PIC TIME....and if you have been logging this as such, you are probably not providing quality SIC time to your employer.

 

[wmuflyguy]

I don't see why you guys are making fun of me for going to riddle and buying my job... I didn't do either. I'm just getting some good quality jet PIC time, thats all. Why the anger towards me?

Mainly because your really really wrong on this topic. But go ahead and log it if you wish, you will be laughed out of interviews.

 

[30West]

I guess you can "log" whatever you want. Good luck at your next interview dude.

 

[B190Captain]

Bottom line: Left seat and signed release = PIC
Right Seat and smaller paycheck = SIC no matter if typed.

If you log PIC in the CRJ and you are an FO = idiot

 

[CoolSidePillow]

Yeah no joke, you spend a lot of time working on the ratings and experience and sucking up to the right people to walk a resume in to what may be your dream gig. One of the individuals that will be sitting across the table at that same interview will be looking through logbooks (electronic or old school) and they know what to look for. A bogus flight log isnt about what kind of pilot you are as much as what kind of person you are. Will they want to hire someone looking for all the shortcuts and trying to bypass the honest requirements? Will that same person try doing that with company policies? The FAR's? Why would a company want to hire someone who cannot even apply honestly when there are thousands with honest credentials that would make more honorable employees? It is hard to do the right thing in a society that rewards mediocrity and celebrates the lazy herd mentality but bad kharma is a bitch and aviation is a small world. No matter what the powers that be will find a way to take your last cent, ruin your benefits, take away pension, work you harder for less, convince you to buy more gargabe you cannot afford and do not need, get another credit card, another mortgage and lose years off life stressing about money. So you might as well have a big hairy set and walk with honor.

 

[Windsor]

If you are that desperate for PIC time, pencil in a few hundred hours in your imaginary family King Air. When asked about it on an interview, just say your dad owns one and thats how you built your time. Then imagine the interviewer's foot kicking your a$$ out the door.

 

[007]

Flamebait

 

[BigPappa]

People,
This dude who started this thread is totally flame bait! He is probably some disgruntled major guy trying to make regional guys look bad. It is funny that everybody seriously responds to this nonsense.

 

[dogtown]

So I was dead-heading on a 767 the other day, I figure I'm an ACM, logged it as SO...thats cool right?