Fortune magazine article on Sokal

[Pervis]

I have to wave the BS flag. When you call in fatigued, you are shut down, sent to the hotel, and granted 14 hours rest-minimum-per the CBA. Who was this "representative"? The correct term is SOD, and you would know that if you truely worked at NJA. Or are you just trying to spread more "stuff" about the company and its employees?

 

[gunfyter]

You can be kept on duty to do non safety related things. Like being a passenger on a Limo or airline. If you can't do even these things ... then you need to DNIF.

But fatigue means you don't operate aircraft or vehicles.

 

[Pervis]

Section 28 clearly states what company cannot schedule you for after a fatigue call. It says no flight duty or rental car, implying other types of travel, but limited to specific circumstances. 28.5(F)(1)(b) talks about reducing the 14 hr rest period when fatigue is called the second to last assigned duty day in order to avaid "intentional" after midnights. Nowhere does that section address "other" duty, such as Jepps revisions or other paperwork, etc. Since it is not specifically addressed, one could argue anything goes. However, I believe if the CBA does not specifically allow them to, they can't just make stuff up. RAJ says they were kept on duty for another 5 hours, but doesn't specify what type of duty. If there was questionable assigment involved, I would challenge that via the grievance process, whatever the "rep" said.

 

[CRJFlyer]

just or the record I never ever referred to anyone as the SOD.... just sayin that alone would not discredit his employment at NJA..


As far as being kept on for an additional 5 hrs.........never saw it happen. Whenever I called in fatigued it was an immediate or nearly immediate shutdown. There was the usual delay to set up hotel or transportation to the hotel. But never for fulfilling a duty assignment.

 

[Helmsalee]

We all know that Raj has a tendency to make up things or modify them to suit his agenda. He is sitting on the sidelines waiting for the rest of us to clear up loose details before he comes back with an explanation. Just like the fatigue report thread.
Helm

 

[jppt2000]

The problem is that most of us are paying around 2G a year for representation and nothing is being done to fix this stuff.

This equates to over 4 million dollars a year. Where is all this money going considering the lack of service we are receiving lately?

What did the Union representative you contacted say?

 

[rajflyboy]

I have to wave the BS flag. When you call in fatigued, you are shut down, sent to the hotel, and granted 14 hours rest-minimum-per the CBA. Who was this "representative"? The correct term is SOD, and you would know that if you truely worked at NJA. Or are you just trying to spread more "stuff" about the company and its employees?

Well

You are clueless because this did happen and Yes the SOD all 4 million dollars worth said that yes the company can do this.

 

[rajflyboy]

You can be kept on duty to do non safety related things. Like being a passenger on a Limo or airline. If you can't do even these things ... then you need to DNIF.

But fatigue means you don't operate aircraft or vehicles.

pretty much exactly what the SOD said

 

[rajflyboy]

just or the record I never ever referred to anyone as the SOD.... just sayin that alone would not discredit his employment at NJA..


As far as being kept on for an additional 5 hrs.........never saw it happen. Whenever I called in fatigued it was an immediate or nearly immediate shutdown. There was the usual delay to set up hotel or transportation to the hotel. But never for fulfilling a duty assignment.

Same here until last night. It was day 6 for both of us. We were in a busy location for Netjets.

I'm not necessarily pissed about it. I'm just telling you all what happened so that you can be prepared in case they do it to you. Also dissapointed that the representation allows this to go on.

This all after a dissapointing week of CMH not answering phone calls or general messages in a timely matter. Troubles with crew food and then given slack about wanting to go get food (several different times). We were told once to arrange our own crew food because the caterer at location was on vacation. ???? We had a bogus MX line suddenly put on our aircraft just as the pax were sitting down on the airplane and then it took 3 phone calls to get this cleared up. Typical schedule changes over and over and over.

2 different nights when late ops was supposedly arranged with an fbo and was not.

ETD messages over and over again. They still don't understand that On Time means nothing in this business. We move the plane when the passengers show up. Thats why they pay the big bucks for our service.

All added up to a wonderful week.

 

[DC-4]

Dude that is a simple answer, fatigue in the morning because of a lack of rest not 14 hours. Then, they send you to the FBO and put you on duty and then fatigue again. Its a terrible game but if they want to play, well an ac will never move. Prior to furlough I once called in fatigued twice in a row till they got the message that I am to rest when I fatigue not f around. But it is a sick and twisted game with NJA schedulers (go Andy, not the girl LOL). Anyone at NJA understands that humor.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I just did my expense report from my last tour. I have hotel receipts from:

London
Dublin
Bermuda
Nantucket
Dulles
Santa Monica

And that was a 7-day tour. We do 14 hour days standing on our heads in the Gulfstream fleet...

 

[jonjuan]

I just did my expense report from my last tour. I have hotel receipts from:

London
Dublin
Bermuda
Nantucket
Dulles
Santa Monica

And that was a 7-day tour. We do 14 hour days standing on our heads in the Gulfstream fleet...

Do a 5 legger in the Yultra. Guaranteed you'll be doing the "Crying Game" at the end of the day.

 

[CRJFlyer]

I just did my expense report from my last tour. I have hotel receipts from:

London
Dublin
Bermuda
Nantucket
Dulles
Santa Monica

And that was a 7-day tour. We do 14 hour days standing on our heads in the Gulfstream fleet...

Thats 4 outta 6 solid overnights....Could do without IAD or ACK...Santa Monica might be my new favorite overnight...Maybe someday I'll get back there.

 

[glasspilot]

I AM the man from KACK.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Do a 5 legger in the Yultra. Guaranteed you'll be doing the "Crying Game" at the end of the day.

No doubt. Point being the company is utilizing pilots unlike they did in the past.

 

[jtf]

Not necessarily true- 2006 was far busier for me on the Excel. That was due to having lots of airplanes, but not enough pilots getting through the training tunnel. It is back to normal times for me now on the Excel. Some days are brutal and others are do nothing and others are somewhere in between. It is definitely busier than the last couple of years, but not crazy all the time yet. I definitely believe things will get busier and busier until we reach the breaking point before current management will recall, but I don't think we are anywhere close to that. It is going to take a heck of a lot more fatigue calls that co$t the company more than it costs to recall.

 

[Jack Campbell]

It is going to take a heck of a lot more fatigue calls that co$t the company more than it costs to recall.

I think the breaking point will be selloffs if it is not fatigue calls. Either way, they won't recall anyone until they absolutely, positively need to.

 

[RP170]

I think the breaking point will be selloffs if it is not fatigue calls. Either way, they won't recall anyone until they absolutely, positively need to.

Which, by then, will most likely be too late.

 

[Jack Campbell]

which, by then, will most likely be too late.

bingo !

 

[rajflyboy]

I just did my expense report from my last tour. I have hotel receipts from:

London
Dublin
Bermuda
Nantucket
Dulles
Santa Monica

And that was a 7-day tour. We do 14 hour days standing on our heads in the Gulfstream fleet...

Thats exactly why you can have it and most of us do not want the International side