Fortune magazine article on Sokal

[rajflyboy]

What's the point of the company keeping you on duty after you say you are fatigued, raj? You obviously aren't going to be going anywhere.

I guess you edited your post.

Thats new to me as of tonight. They kept us on duty for an additional 5 hours. We called our representation and they said it was legal.

In fact your 14 hours off starts as of the time you called cmh land. So if you called in fatigued at 5pm eastern and they keep you on duty until 10 pm they can actually still show you at 7am.

????? I don't get it but this is what I expect now a days.

 

[RP170]

They want to play that game, then I would fatigue the next morning when I woke up as well.

 

[rajflyboy]

They want to play that game, then I would fatigue the next morning when I woke up as well.

The problem is that most of us are paying around 2G a year for representation and nothing is being done to fix this stuff.

This equates to over 4 million dollars a year. Where is all this money going considering the lack of service we are receiving lately?

 

[gunfyter]

Where were you on duty? The hotel?

 

[Jack Mehoff]

Extended days are a no brainer. I think PW can tell you our feelings on them. (no matter how he thinks he is justifying them). Any pilot who volunteers for an extended day is no friend or "family" member of mine and will be treated appropriately...... like the dirt bag they are.

I think the character of Bill Lumburg in Office Space was based on PW. The producers said "So Who's the biggest D-Bag alive? Cue "Pad your wallet and help the company" PW!

 

[Pervis]

I have to wave the BS flag. When you call in fatigued, you are shut down, sent to the hotel, and granted 14 hours rest-minimum-per the CBA. Who was this "representative"? The correct term is SOD, and you would know that if you truely worked at NJA. Or are you just trying to spread more "stuff" about the company and its employees?

 

[gunfyter]

You can be kept on duty to do non safety related things. Like being a passenger on a Limo or airline. If you can't do even these things ... then you need to DNIF.

But fatigue means you don't operate aircraft or vehicles.

 

[Pervis]

Section 28 clearly states what company cannot schedule you for after a fatigue call. It says no flight duty or rental car, implying other types of travel, but limited to specific circumstances. 28.5(F)(1)(b) talks about reducing the 14 hr rest period when fatigue is called the second to last assigned duty day in order to avaid "intentional" after midnights. Nowhere does that section address "other" duty, such as Jepps revisions or other paperwork, etc. Since it is not specifically addressed, one could argue anything goes. However, I believe if the CBA does not specifically allow them to, they can't just make stuff up. RAJ says they were kept on duty for another 5 hours, but doesn't specify what type of duty. If there was questionable assigment involved, I would challenge that via the grievance process, whatever the "rep" said.

 

[CRJFlyer]

just or the record I never ever referred to anyone as the SOD.... just sayin that alone would not discredit his employment at NJA..


As far as being kept on for an additional 5 hrs.........never saw it happen. Whenever I called in fatigued it was an immediate or nearly immediate shutdown. There was the usual delay to set up hotel or transportation to the hotel. But never for fulfilling a duty assignment.

 

[Helmsalee]

We all know that Raj has a tendency to make up things or modify them to suit his agenda. He is sitting on the sidelines waiting for the rest of us to clear up loose details before he comes back with an explanation. Just like the fatigue report thread.
Helm

 

[jppt2000]

The problem is that most of us are paying around 2G a year for representation and nothing is being done to fix this stuff.

This equates to over 4 million dollars a year. Where is all this money going considering the lack of service we are receiving lately?

What did the Union representative you contacted say?

 

[rajflyboy]

I have to wave the BS flag. When you call in fatigued, you are shut down, sent to the hotel, and granted 14 hours rest-minimum-per the CBA. Who was this "representative"? The correct term is SOD, and you would know that if you truely worked at NJA. Or are you just trying to spread more "stuff" about the company and its employees?

Well

You are clueless because this did happen and Yes the SOD all 4 million dollars worth said that yes the company can do this.

 

[rajflyboy]

You can be kept on duty to do non safety related things. Like being a passenger on a Limo or airline. If you can't do even these things ... then you need to DNIF.

But fatigue means you don't operate aircraft or vehicles.

pretty much exactly what the SOD said

 

[rajflyboy]

just or the record I never ever referred to anyone as the SOD.... just sayin that alone would not discredit his employment at NJA..


As far as being kept on for an additional 5 hrs.........never saw it happen. Whenever I called in fatigued it was an immediate or nearly immediate shutdown. There was the usual delay to set up hotel or transportation to the hotel. But never for fulfilling a duty assignment.

Same here until last night. It was day 6 for both of us. We were in a busy location for Netjets.

I'm not necessarily pissed about it. I'm just telling you all what happened so that you can be prepared in case they do it to you. Also dissapointed that the representation allows this to go on.

This all after a dissapointing week of CMH not answering phone calls or general messages in a timely matter. Troubles with crew food and then given slack about wanting to go get food (several different times). We were told once to arrange our own crew food because the caterer at location was on vacation. ???? We had a bogus MX line suddenly put on our aircraft just as the pax were sitting down on the airplane and then it took 3 phone calls to get this cleared up. Typical schedule changes over and over and over.

2 different nights when late ops was supposedly arranged with an fbo and was not.

ETD messages over and over again. They still don't understand that On Time means nothing in this business. We move the plane when the passengers show up. Thats why they pay the big bucks for our service.

All added up to a wonderful week.

 

[DC-4]

Dude that is a simple answer, fatigue in the morning because of a lack of rest not 14 hours. Then, they send you to the FBO and put you on duty and then fatigue again. Its a terrible game but if they want to play, well an ac will never move. Prior to furlough I once called in fatigued twice in a row till they got the message that I am to rest when I fatigue not f around. But it is a sick and twisted game with NJA schedulers (go Andy, not the girl LOL). Anyone at NJA understands that humor.