Ford may sell jets

[jonjuan]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/21/new...oratejets.ap/index.htm?postversion=2008112121

Ford mulls corporate jet sale

Carmaker says it's exploring options for its planes after CEO is criticized for flight to Congressional hearings.
November 21, 2008: 9:51 PM ET

DETROIT (AP) -- Ford Motor Co. may sell its fleet of five corporate jets after top executives of the three Detroit automakers were harshly criticized by members of Congress this week for their travel expenses.

In a statement issued Friday, Ford (F, Fortune 500) said it is exploring all options for the fleet, which it said has been reduced from nine in 2005.
"Ford's top priority is to continue making progress on our transformation plan, and we do not want anything to distract us," spokesman Mark Truby said in a statement. "We are exploring all cost-effective solutions for our air travel."
The announcement comes just days after Ford CEO Alan Mulally, Chrysler LLC CEO Robert Nardelli and General Motors Corp. (GM, Fortune 500) CEO Rick Wagoner traveled to Washington on separate corporate jets to seek $25 billion in government loans to help them make it through the worst U.S. auto sales downturn in 25 years.
Congress, though, abandoned a vote on the bailout after a disastrous appearance in which the automakers were criticized for lavish corporate travel, as well as for having poor business plans and high labor costs that some members said would keep them from being competitive with Toyota Motor Corp. (TM) andHonda Motor Co. (HMC)
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Democrat from Nevada, said in Washington that "these guys flying in their big corporate jets doesn't send a good message to people in Searchlight, Nev., or Las Vegas or Reno or anyplace in this country."
Corporations typically lease planes, buy them or charter aircraft to transport executives and other employees. Many require executives to travel by corporate jet for security reasons and so they can meet with other executives and do work while traveling.
Truby said that of the five remaining jets, three are used for executive travel, while the other two shuttle employees such as engineers to factories where new products are being launched.
"We have been and continue to look at all of our operations to reduce costs and operate more efficiently," he said.
GM said Thursday that it was in the process of returning two of its five leased corporate jets to the leasing company.
Spokesman Tom Wilkinson said the company planned to return the jets because travel spending had been cut. The jets were scheduled to be returned even before the automakers were criticized in Washington, he said.
"It would have been done anyway," Wilkinson said. "It's just the travel cutbacks have been so severe. It's just not being used."
GM started the year with seven leased jets but returned two of them in September, Wilkinson said.
Chrysler spokesman David Elshoff would not comment on its jets.

 

[BEfly]

I wonder who'd buy em

 

[nerdpilot]

Yea Right!!!!!!! Bad news for all the automakers Pilots but good news for Netjets who will probably be the sneaky way they keep up their executive lifestyles while placating the congress they are going to change their way of doing business.

 

[BoilerUP]

Yea Right!!!!!!! Bad news for all the automakers Pilots but good news for Netjets who will probably be the sneaky way they keep up their executive lifestyles while placating the congress they are going to change their way of doing business.

You do realize that business aircraft aren't just some "fat cat luxury", but are another tool that helps run a large international business...don't you?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

BU- right you are... but it is all about perception! Sorry, the phat cats are going to lose job effectiveness because they are...well not effective....

We shouldn't reward failure.....right?

 

[Cat3C]

You do realize that business aircraft aren't just some "fat cat luxury", but are another tool that helps run a large international business...don't you?

How many of those tards up on the hill have been on those jets and others? How many flights have the Clintons been on in their campaigns? How many of the lobbiers been on? Interesting.

Perception is certainly the key here but it should also not be lost. Bad timing fo sho. Thanks to those interns sitting at the airport. One of our crew members was at lunch at a local hotel having lunch and right next to him was several newsproducers who were talking to their crews stationed all over watching for these planes.

As a stockholder in certain companies (like we all are) do we really want those execs that make tons sitting at gate 21? I guess I am biased being a pilot for a fortune 100 company but at times it makes my mind spin. I just flew to 5 cities in three days - it would be difficult at best to have flown that profile on any other vehicle. Expensive? Well that depends on the importance of the meetings. Efficient use of company personnel? Absolutely. We left early on Friday to return home where they were able to go back to corporate and do more work. Rant over.

 

[G4G5]

I wonder who'd buy em

I'd buy them if I had any where the capital necessary.

In all reality it will be NetJets, Jet Aviation or any other part 135 with a brain and then lease them back to Ford. This is a license to print money for someone who acts quickly.

All Ford want's to do is get them off the books until the Congress has someone else to pick on. A company the likes of Ford has no intension of making their executives rely on NWA out of Detroit for all of their corporate travel.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

A company the likes of Ford has no intension of making their executives rely on NWA out of Detroit for all of their corporate travel.

Assuming that there is a company called Ford...

 

[siucavflight]

Could you imagine how much better the auto industry would be doing if this man were the CEO? Watch the reaction on his face when he hears what American CEOs get paid.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/business/2008/11/02/lah.japan.ceo.pay.cut.cnn

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Word has it that as soon as Nishimatsu heard what US CEOs make, he fired off an app to GM.

 

[ksu_aviator]

If I was a Ford pilot, I'd be filing a law suit against a member of congress for forcing my job to be lost. They are directly responsible after all.

 

[flyguy75000]

deleted

 

[BushwickBill]

If I was a Ford pilot, I'd be filing a law suit against a member of congress for forcing my job to be lost. They are directly responsible after all.

How about filing a law suit against your empoyer for making crap cars.

 

[BushwickBill]

Could you imagine how much better the auto industry would be doing if this man were the CEO? Watch the reaction on his face when he hears what American CEOs get paid.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/business/2008/11/02/lah.japan.ceo.pay.cut.cnn

nice find

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If I was a Ford pilot, I'd be filing a law suit against a member of congress for forcing my job to be lost. They are directly responsible after all.

Everyone loves the free market screwing everyone until they get screwed then suddenly it is not so good.....

 

[BoilerUP]

Everyone loves the free market screwing everyone until they get screwed then suddenly it is not so good.....

Hypocritical Congressman who use donated corporate aircraft during campaigns blasting CEOs for their use of company aircraft for *gasp* business reasons doesn't have JACK to do with the "free market".

Then again, congressional bailouts by their nature are in violation of "free market" principals.

Besides, those CEOs either couldn't or wouldn't man up and defend the use of those aircraft as a necessary business asset...and if GM or Ford cuts aircraft and jobs within their flight department as a result of this nonsense than Congress isn't to blame for that...the weak-dick CEO is.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Big three CEO's defending corpjets wouldn't have been handout suicide....

Look, I agree with you the corpjets are a biz tool... nothing wrong with it....

But this is perception.... looking back, I am sure all of these Clowns, I mean CEO's would have loved to taken NWA on the day in question...

IOW, if you are going to ask for big bailout then have some SA....

 

[Hand Commander]

The execs might be able to redeem themselves by taking a page from the playbook of Michael Bluth of the Bluth Company. Sell the Corporate jet, keep the stair car. New executive transport: the stair car. Just watch out for low bridges and hop ons. You will get hop ons.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

These guys were pathetic. Deer in headlights as they get grilled by some retard congressmen...and all they can say is "we need money"..

I guess its all part of the dance, they beg, congress says show us your plan, they get a check...but it certainly angers me that the let something as miniscule in the big picture as a ride on the corp jet to be the epicenter? They let Frank and Ackerman (2 complete losers) run the dialogue? - COME ON.

Result: Go home, clean up the window dressing and throw some pilots out. Nice.

For the money these CEOs command today, they sure do come across as pretty f'n stupid.

Interesting times..

 

[metrodriver]

Here is one reason:
MINI Cooper D (yes, that's Diesel) 80 mpg highway, 60 mpg city!. 1.6L/ 110hp. Topspeed 121 mph.
1 million MINI's sold in 6 years. Owned by BMW.

The Toyota Prius doesn't even come close. Anything that Detroit builds is, well, euhh, far behind.

Quality, what's that? Do a search on carcomplaints.com. Do a search on Chrysler. Their 2.7L V6 has a terrible history of seizing up after 60.000 miles. Electrical problems, where to start?

Consumer Report has interesting reports on quality. New and used. The big 3 are all in the bottom of the rankings.

If I buy a car I want something reliable for the $30-50.000 they cost nowaday, not something that gives me a hatefull intimate relationship with a dealer or manufacturer that gives me the run-around.
Example: my wife's Chrysler Sebring Convertable: 6 years old, 6ok miles, 8 major service issues (and a few little ones), all quality related: poor materials, bad design.
My old Toyota, 220k miles: Air flow meter failed at 190k. Only problem I've ever had.

Never ever a Chrysler product again, same goes for Ford and (US) GM. I know I'm not the only one.....

 

[BoilerUP]

MINI Cooper D (yes, that's Diesel) 80 mpg highway, 60 mpg city!. 1.6L/ 110hp. Topspeed 121 mph.

Is that diesel Mini sold in the US?

Consumer Report has interesting reports on quality. New and used. The big 3 are all in the bottom of the rankings.

I don't trust a f**king word Consumer Reports has to say about automobile "quality" after the hatchet job they did on both the Izuzu Trooper and Suzuki Sidekick back in the 1990s.

 

[EuroWheenie]

Strange, really, how Ford and GM build really shyte cars in the US, and loosing billions in the process, whereas their European arms (Ford and Opel) are building rather nice motors and turning a profit.

Case(s) in point: The Ford Focus is one of the best choices of motor in the C (VW Golf) class. The Ford Mondeo is, according to many, the best choice the D (VW Passat) class - especially if you consider value for money (otherwise the BMW 3, Audi A4 or Merc C are the obvious choices). The Opel Insignia has just been voted Car of the Year in Europe.

I would never, not in a milion years, buy any car from Big 3 produced in the US, but I wouldn't mind buying a Ford made in either the UK or Germany, nor an Opel. In fact, am shopping around for a small run-about for the Mrs, and it'll prolly end up being a Ford Fiesta or Opel Corsa. Does umpteen miles to the gallon (or very few litres per 100km as it's measured over here), are cheap to run insurance and tax wise, cheap to maintain - partly because they hardly ever breaks down. Other options will be something Japanese, but wife doesn't fancy Jap cars.

I'm on my 4th BMW now, having had a brief stint driving an Audi (which, although very nice, I didn't like for it's boring driving qualities), this time it's a 320d Touring. 177bhp, torque in droves, does 142mph and sips diesel at silly rates (6.5L/100KM on average (and I hardly drive it economically!), which translates to roughly 37mpg. 50mpg is easily done on longer motorway stretches if I limit myself to around 110 mph.

 

[metrodriver]

Is that diesel Mini sold in the US?

Off course not. I first heard about it in London. Some cabinet minister was driving it with a chauffeur and was being interviewed by a newspaper because usually these guys get a lot bigger car from the state, but he refused, liked his MINI too much. I couldn't believe it so I looked it up on the MINI website, and that's were above mentioned numbers come from.

I just talked to some German friends that live in Opel territory and the big news there is that they want to be seperated from GM again. They get tired of funding the US losses....

Apparently if a european car doesn't get 40 to 50 mpg it's a piece of junk. I'm amazed at how large the percentage of cars runs on diesel, 60-70 % in some countries. No smoke, no smell, no more bolts-in-a-bucket noise, fast and very efficient. They even have Jeep Cherokee and Chrysler Caravan as a diesel.

 

[LJ45]

maybe, all three should walk instead of fly since they could answers a simple challenge by some idiot politician. simply pathetic !!

 

[keebird]

They should downsize to a Hondajet.

 

[EuroWheenie]

Metro

VW produces a 3-cylinder Polo Bluemotion. It's an oilburner, and it'll return around 70-80 mpg. My BMW is officially a 57mpg car. The 204 bhp, 6-cylinder, 325d is a 48mpg car. I drove one, and you would be hard pressed to tell it's a diesel. You can even get a 286bhp twin-turbo 335d (0-62 in 6.1 seconds), which still returns 42mpg!

I couldn't quite justify the price difference between the 325d and 320d, or rather choosing the 325d would have meant cutting down on options, so I sprung for the 320d and spent the difference on nice extras such as 18 inch rims, leather, stereo and navigation. Still, the 4-cylinder 320d has a very nice engine and, being a common-rail diesel, it runs very smoothly indeed.

As for diesel in Europe, hardly anybody buys anthing but diesel over here. The percentage is nearing 75% on average, in some countries (DE, BE, IT, NL) it's more than 85%. Diesel is cheaper, and you go a lot longer on a litre (or gallon) than using petrol. Diesel also offers a vast torque advantage, and since they rotate at lower rpms, are also less noisy. The purchase price is a bit higher, but that's recuperated if you drive more than around 15K KM (or just short of 10K miles) a year.

 

[metrodriver]

My BMW is officially a 57mpg car. The 204 bhp, 6-cylinder, 325d is a 48mpg car. I drove one, and you would be hard pressed to tell it's a diesel. You can even get a 286bhp twin-turbo 335d (0-62 in 6.1 seconds), which still returns 42mpg! [End quote]

200+ hp from 2.5L @48 mpg
280+ hp from 3.5L @42 mpg
2.0L @ 57 mpg

Wooow, those hp's are numbers that couldn't even be achieved by gasoline engines just a few years ago.
You will still be hardpressed to find those numbers in US build gasoline engines. The MPG numbers are way above what anything in the US can achieve.
The 10+ yr old Geo Metro = Suzuki Swift has become very popular again because of the high fuel prizes. It gets about 50 mpg on a 1L 3 cylinder engine. Now the Honda Civic Hybrid, Toyota Prius (hybrid) get between 40 and 60 mpg. The Big 3 are advertising heavily with cars that get barely 30 mpg.

Seeing the numbers on European (diesel) cars and the US I certainly believe there is some kind of conspiracy between the car makers and the oil industry. Oeps, I forgot Bush, Cheney & co came out of the oil business and are still heavily tied to it.
Coming up with plans to drill on the edges of National Parks (derricks will be visible in pictures from famous landmarks in some Utah National Parks if the recently -and somewhat secretly-announced auction of drilling parcels continues) will secure their business and stocks for years to come. Reducing the dependence on foreign oil starts at home with a lot more efficient cars. It also reduces the capacity constraints on refineries. But less production = lower prices = lower profits = lower stock price = not good for Texas oil barrons.

BMW 3-series are very nice cars. It shows that safety, comfort and fuel efficiency can be combined.
It takes a leading government and industry cooperation to bring innovative products to the market. Maybe the public in the US is still a little wary of diesel engines, if there are more cars being offered except the VW Golf / Jetta D, the public perception will change very quick.

The sad shape of the Big 3 is directly contributable to the folks who are now argueing about their use of corporate jets, the wwwaaaaaaaayyyyy overpaid CEO's.

 

[BoilerUP]

I'm pretty sure most Euro diesels, although they have good fuel economy, don't meet US emissions standards and that's why they aren't available domestically.

 

[jonjuan]

They should downsize to a Hondajet.

Their wallets wouldn't fit through the door.

 

[EuroWheenie]

Metrodriver

The 335d is actually a 3.0 litre engine, not 3.5. They also make a 330d, which develops around 245hp with a single turbo. The 335d is the same engine, but with twin-turbos.

BMW is making a 123d, same 2.0 litre as in my 320d, but developing 203hp. That's more than 100 hp per litre; a first for diesel engines. Still very frugal, but fast as shyte off a shiny shovel.

BoilerUP

True, at least partially. I belive the 320d will meet emission requirements in the US (or, California to be exact) if fitted with a particle filter. Since you pay tax on cars in Belgium based on a weird mix of horsepower, fuel consumption and emissions, I had the filter fitted to mine. Did add a bit to the cost, but will be recuperated in 4 years time. That's also when the EU will impose emission regulations a tad stricter than what California now has, which means that if I'd neglected to fit the filter the resale value would have taken rather a large hit.