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For you ALPA bashers

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Dan Roman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2004
Posts
2,815
We (Hawaiian) recently signed our latest contract with substantial improvements. We never could have done it without ALPA. The help we got from them is far to numerous to list here. But plane and simple, we could not have done it on our own. In addition, the fact that Alaska recently made gains ahead of us and then their leadership was very forthcoming in helping us was quite beneficial. Our companies may compete, but beyound that we are all pilots with the same goals. Again, thanks to ALPA. (and thanks AK).
Also important to note, Hawaiian is doing well now. This has not always been the case. Over the years we have gone through 2 bankruptcies, had to many owners and management teams to remember. In fact, we began the de-regulation era competing with an airline that was started by ex Hawaiian execs, who got their money from Hawaiian and started up a non union airline charging $9.95 inter-island with the intent of putting us out of business. I could go on and on with the challenges made to Hawaiian and our contract. But the bottom line is, even in the tough times, we managed to hang on to a lot of what was important to us, including retirement, through some very lean years and shady management practices. Without ALPA, no way around it, we would be way worse off and a few execs probably would be way better off.

ALPA is not perfect, it's just a vehicle for pilots to try to do what is best for many as opposed to individuals trying to help themselves.
 
opps, I just reread my post and I made a glaring omision, not only did we benefit from Alaska, our ALPA brothers at Delta were a major help. Mahalo!
 
You are Welcome and congrats....

I wish we could have kept our pension.....but crying over spilled milk isn't worth the time.
 
"...not only did we benefit from Alaska, our ALPA brothers at Delta were a major help."

Well, let's not forget your ALPA brothers at ATA and Aloha, without the failures of which... HAL would not have had such a banner few years and subsequently been in the position to afford you the gains that you have made.

No bitterness here, glad to see you guys are doing well...But let's not forget the fallen.


YKMKR
 
We (Hawaiian) recently signed our latest contract with substantial improvements. We never could have done it without ALPA. The help we got from them is far to numerous to list here. But plane and simple, we could not have done it on our own. In addition, the fact that Alaska recently made gains ahead of us and then their leadership was very forthcoming in helping us was quite beneficial. Our companies may compete, but beyound that we are all pilots with the same goals. Again, thanks to ALPA. (and thanks AK).
Also important to note, Hawaiian is doing well now. This has not always been the case. Over the years we have gone through 2 bankruptcies, had to many owners and management teams to remember. In fact, we began the de-regulation era competing with an airline that was started by ex Hawaiian execs, who got their money from Hawaiian and started up a non union airline charging $9.95 inter-island with the intent of putting us out of business. I could go on and on with the challenges made to Hawaiian and our contract. But the bottom line is, even in the tough times, we managed to hang on to a lot of what was important to us, including retirement, through some very lean years and shady management practices. Without ALPA, no way around it, we would be way worse off and a few execs probably would be way better off.

ALPA is not perfect, it's just a vehicle for pilots to try to do what is best for many as opposed to individuals trying to help themselves.

I bet ALPA or our "MEC" didn't bother to tell you that those "gains" at Alaska Airlines were on the backs of the 106 of us that are furloughed that they threw under the bus by not seeing our furlough grievance through to the end. Also, how much did the Kasher award take away versus how much you got back with last year's contract? Still a pretty big net loss if I'm not mistaken. And ALPA is proud of that?!?! That's why management treats us the way they do. They know pilot unions are full of pu$$ies who won't do what's necessary to fight and get back what was lost. Regardless of the fact the the company made a 88 million profit last year. Hell,I'd rather be a NY transit worker, at least their union will fight......

I still haven't forgotten this, even though most of you have.....
 
Last edited:
United Airlines Pilots Awarded $44 Million in Retirement Class Action

Chicago, IL: Airline pilots for United Airlines have won a $44 million settlement, ending their three-year lawsuit against the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) International.

The lawsuit was brought by a group of senior pilots who objected to the way in which the ALPA handled the split up of retirement payments under United Airline's recent bankruptcy organization. The lawsuit related specifically to the allocation of pension and retirement benefits to junior pilots at the expense of senior pilots, who had accrued considerable benefits resulting from more years of service and higher salaries.

Approximately 2,200 pilots are represented in the class action, and after legal fees are deducted from the settlement, the total sum split between them will be $28 million.

JAN-29-10: United pilots win $44 million union retirement suit [CHICAGO TRIBUNE: BUSINESS]

Where are your dues going?
 
United Airlines Pilots Awarded $44 Million in Retirement Class Action

Chicago, IL: Airline pilots for United Airlines have won a $44 million settlement, ending their three-year lawsuit against the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) International.

The lawsuit was brought by a group of senior pilots who objected to the way in which the ALPA handled the split up of retirement payments under United Airline's recent bankruptcy organization. The lawsuit related specifically to the allocation of pension and retirement benefits to junior pilots at the expense of senior pilots, who had accrued considerable benefits resulting from more years of service and higher salaries.

Approximately 2,200 pilots are represented in the class action, and after legal fees are deducted from the settlement, the total sum split between them will be $28 million.

JAN-29-10: United pilots win $44 million union retirement suit [CHICAGO TRIBUNE: BUSINESS]

Where are your dues going?

Just keep voting no Blue and see what that gets you.....

Sure you can laugh and let ALPA plow the way for better rules since you work the FARs. No Contract=no protection. Maybe a Republic style merger is in your future Hero!!

I'm sure the senators and goverment agencies take a Jetblue pilots input to the bank when issues like Fight-time duty time come up or low-time pilot issues...

If jerkhole postings were a contest, you'd win hands down!!:D
 
Bill, ignore Blue. He has his Bus captain seat and believes Dave Barger will always take care of him, so F the rest of us. Never mind our market cap is completely stagnant and the 'jet-blue experience' is being surpassed by Virgin, CO, and even DL to some extent. (The preceeding statement is NA when competing routes are flown by 20-yr-old CRJs btw....). The ALPA drive is slowly gaining steam here.
 
Go in house as far as unions go. ALPA DOES NOT have your best interests in mind. All they see is more money for. . . . . . . you guessed it! ALPA National's own management.
 
Just keep voting no Blue and see what that gets you.....

Sure you can laugh and let ALPA plow the way for better rules since you work the FARs. No Contract=no protection. Maybe a Republic style merger is in your future Hero!!

I'm sure the senators and goverment agencies take a Jetblue pilots input to the bank when issues like Fight-time duty time come up or low-time pilot issues...

If jerkhole postings were a contest, you'd win hands down!!:D


Better work rules? Yeah that has worked well here at CAL. ALPA sold us our current POS which is no better then the FARS.
 
It's interesting that a good contract is attributed to ALPA and a bad one is attributed to the MEC.
 
I don't think it was ALPA, it was your own MEC!


Thats true, BUT ALPA signed off on it. So much for "we are ALPA" They don't listen to us one bit. We are merely a cash machine for them. IF ALPA screws us on this next contract that not only will I do everything in my power to ensure ALPA is history for CAL I'll also make sure that my dues at the end of the year are donated to charity rather then to Praters pay check.

I'm not anti-union, not even anti-ALPA. However ALPA totes itself as being the end all, be all of of the professional pilot and working without rest to further my career. I have yet to see that. What I do see, is ALPA voting for the age 65 change (against what the majority of its pilots wanted) and generally not concerning itself with junior pilots. I am tired of my "elected" union officials worrying only about themseleves and the senior pilots at CAL. The very senior pilots that by all rights shouldn't be here at all. Time will tell I guess. I do wear my ALPA pin, but until I see ALPA working for me instead of taking $150.00 per month of my pay check and sending me a stupid magazine I will continue to wear my ALPA pin upside down.
 
Go in house as far as unions go.

Been there, done that. It's a disaster. ALPA isn't perfect, but if you elect good people at the local level, then you'll do far better with ALPA than you'll ever be able to do "in house."
 
Bill, ignore Blue. He has his Bus captain seat and believes Dave Barger will always take care of him, so F the rest of us. Never mind our market cap is completely stagnant and the 'jet-blue experience' is being surpassed by Virgin, CO, and even DL to some extent. (The preceeding statement is NA when competing routes are flown by 20-yr-old CRJs btw....). The ALPA drive is slowly gaining steam here.

Just who do you think a union is going to favor? The senior guys or the junior ones? So, in fact, if I were looking after my own bum, maybe I would be pushing for that ever so coveted union pin... BTW, we have industry-leading 190 pay now...Isn't Airtran still looking for a contract after 5 years? Ask a CAL pilot how satisfied they are with their contracts. Do they get pay-protected for precancelled flights? How good are the paychecks and benefits at Spirit and Allegiant? How many are being furloughed at UPS? I could go on...
 

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