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For Those About to Vote/Not Vote ALPA At SkyWest...
- Thread starter 120% Torque
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JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
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- 6,353
That's the way it would go down..... ALPA or not....
There is bad info. from both sides.....
The ALPA cheerleaders like to threaten the non-union folks with a "staple" if they don't join ALPA (ie Colgan, Skywest, etc.)..... That simply isn't true....
The anti-ALPA or ant-union folks like to threaten that the non-union side will get stapled if they vote for a union and the lists are merged.... likewise, that isn't true....
The ALG/Mohawk arbitration sets the standard..... relative seniority would be the result......
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Posts
- 6,353
SSDD,
Valid concerns, no doubt....
However ALPA isn't a panacea either.... With ALPA, there will be outside influences from ALPA national and mainline MECs that may not be in your best interests....
There will also be continued whipsaw between the groups..... ALPA doesn't have a great track record of preventing whipsaw between the groups.... ALG/PDT/PSA and ASA/CMR are just two examples.... We were all ALPA, but it didn't stop the whipsaw...
What we need is a union that can put a stop to this "bidding" within a brand for flying.... My first choice would be to see ALPA step up to the plate.... But I don't expect to see that.....
Two points:
1. The ALG/Mohawk LPPs don't specify that relative seniority is the method of integration. Career expectations, much like the ALPA merger policy, are the primary metric used in integrations under the LPPs.
2. You imply that the LPPs are the only possible outcome. That's not entirely true. The LPPs would govern an integration under normal circumstances as governed by the ASA CBA, but another possibility exists. It's possible for the ASA MEC to negotiate a separate integration outside of the LPPs as part of the normal Section 6 process. This is what happened with the MAG/Freedumb integration. The list integration was negotiated during the Section 6 talks without any use of the LPPs, even thought the MAG agreement normally points to the LPPs as the method of integrating a non-union group.
120% torque,
Have you ever worked for an ALPA carrier? If yes, what have they done for you?
If no, just be quiet. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. ALPA is a joke. I love when I see SKYWEST pilots with ALPA stickers on their bag, like they know anything about ALPA. They buy you a cup of coffe and here you're being a good cheerleader.
We have our share of problems here at SKW, but what makes you and other clueless pilots think that ALPA is the solution is beyond me.
7,000+ hour "FO". That says everything.
Have you ever worked for an ALPA carrier? If yes, what have they done for you?
If no, just be quiet. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. ALPA is a joke. I love when I see SKYWEST pilots with ALPA stickers on their bag, like they know anything about ALPA. They buy you a cup of coffe and here you're being a good cheerleader.
We have our share of problems here at SKW, but what makes you and other clueless pilots think that ALPA is the solution is beyond me.
7,000+ hour "FO". That says everything.
Like Mesa, United, Northwest, etc. "Real Protection". "Real Contract". Let me go back to real life now.
Here is something to look foward once ALPA gets on property at SKYWEST. I love those ALPA supporters that think with a union we will just get everything we want "because we have a union". An airlne is as good as its managers, regardless of unions.
Pilot morale hits bottom, management gets a bigger shovel, keeps digging.
Fellow American Eagle pilots,
It is with great disappointment that I report to you the unsuccessful conclusion of our Letter 3 grievance settlement discussions this morning. Despite guaranteed movement of Eagle pilots to American and the resulting extensive cost savings to both companies, management refused to work within the framework the unions had proposed.
We are acutely aware of how important these discussions were to all Eagle pilots. It is especially frustrating to have been so close to a legitimate comprehensive resolution of all remaining Letter 3 disputes and yet walk away empty-handed.
Nonetheless, we will now turn our full attention to vigorously defending the Letter 3 rights and the legitimate career expectations of Eagle pilots in the pending arbitrations.
In conclusion, I want to express my deep appreciation to all Eagle pilots for your patient restraint, your unwavering support, and tremendous input into this process. I also want to express my pride in seeing your local council representatives vigorously fight for your unique and sometimes differing interests in any cumulative Letter 3 settlement. You are well represented by this current group of volunteers and I am proud to work along side of them.
We will update you on the arbitration schedule in our weekly hotline which will be posted on Monday.
Fraternally,
Herb Mark
EGL-MEC Chairman
Fellow Eagle ALPA pilots:
For the past few years, American Eagle management has told us that we need to reduce our costs. This has been the goal in every decision, in every department, at every level.
The Eagle ALPA MEC has worked diligently with American Eagle management towards this goal. We’ve worked on the longevity issue, the Captain Qualified First Officer initiative, the ACARS initiative, the Gate initiative, and the Pairing Generation Task Force. Eagle ALPA pilots have in fact delivered tens of millions of dollars in fuel savings to management.
The negotiated Letter 3 settlement that was crafted jointly by ALPA and APA has the potential to save the AMR Corporation money, and to immediately solve many problems for American Airlines, the APA, American Eagle Airlines, and Eagle pilots represented by ALPA. These discussions, if allowed to continue, represent an opportunity for the AMR Corporation to make a short term investment that could return a significant cost savings over time.
We are asking Eagle ALPA pilots to immediately communicate with Eagle management their level of dissatisfaction with the outcome of today’s meeting. We don’t want an arbitrator deciding our future. We believe the best solution lies with a negotiated settlement. Tell Eagle management to do whatever it takes to keep these negotiations going.
The Eagle ALPA MEC will teleconference this Wednesday. Until then, we ask that you remain professional. Please stay attentive to your email inboxes and the Eagle website for more information.
Pilot morale hits bottom, management gets a bigger shovel, keeps digging.
Fellow American Eagle pilots,
It is with great disappointment that I report to you the unsuccessful conclusion of our Letter 3 grievance settlement discussions this morning. Despite guaranteed movement of Eagle pilots to American and the resulting extensive cost savings to both companies, management refused to work within the framework the unions had proposed.
We are acutely aware of how important these discussions were to all Eagle pilots. It is especially frustrating to have been so close to a legitimate comprehensive resolution of all remaining Letter 3 disputes and yet walk away empty-handed.
Nonetheless, we will now turn our full attention to vigorously defending the Letter 3 rights and the legitimate career expectations of Eagle pilots in the pending arbitrations.
In conclusion, I want to express my deep appreciation to all Eagle pilots for your patient restraint, your unwavering support, and tremendous input into this process. I also want to express my pride in seeing your local council representatives vigorously fight for your unique and sometimes differing interests in any cumulative Letter 3 settlement. You are well represented by this current group of volunteers and I am proud to work along side of them.
We will update you on the arbitration schedule in our weekly hotline which will be posted on Monday.
Fraternally,
Herb Mark
EGL-MEC Chairman
Fellow Eagle ALPA pilots:
For the past few years, American Eagle management has told us that we need to reduce our costs. This has been the goal in every decision, in every department, at every level.
The Eagle ALPA MEC has worked diligently with American Eagle management towards this goal. We’ve worked on the longevity issue, the Captain Qualified First Officer initiative, the ACARS initiative, the Gate initiative, and the Pairing Generation Task Force. Eagle ALPA pilots have in fact delivered tens of millions of dollars in fuel savings to management.
The negotiated Letter 3 settlement that was crafted jointly by ALPA and APA has the potential to save the AMR Corporation money, and to immediately solve many problems for American Airlines, the APA, American Eagle Airlines, and Eagle pilots represented by ALPA. These discussions, if allowed to continue, represent an opportunity for the AMR Corporation to make a short term investment that could return a significant cost savings over time.
We are asking Eagle ALPA pilots to immediately communicate with Eagle management their level of dissatisfaction with the outcome of today’s meeting. We don’t want an arbitrator deciding our future. We believe the best solution lies with a negotiated settlement. Tell Eagle management to do whatever it takes to keep these negotiations going.
The Eagle ALPA MEC will teleconference this Wednesday. Until then, we ask that you remain professional. Please stay attentive to your email inboxes and the Eagle website for more information.
120% Torque
Well-known member
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- Oct 17, 2002
- Posts
- 277
Yes I have, two of them to be exact so I guess I'm going to go ahead and speak my mind. How long have you been at Skywest....yes it does make a difference in your your credability in speaking as a Skywest pilot.
I've got plenty of Part 121 Turbine PIC so dont worry about that.
Gr82Aviate
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2004
- Posts
- 1,180
Did you even bother reading what he wrote?????? That was only a small example of the lack of progress/support they have been providing for years!
ALPA may not be perfect, and can't wave a magic wand to solve all our problems overnight; however, at least we can have some say in a legally binding contract with reps we elect that aren't working for and being paid(and promoted to management positions)by BH and JA!!
All that torque provided, along with the recent BS that occured with MH....how many more lies and false promises will it take for you to GET A CLUE???
120% Torque
Well-known member
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Thanks for the sage advice. Regardless of where I'm working I will still pull for those who need something better than SAPA. You act so authoritative and yet you know very little.
Two of them??- that shows how alpa helps airlines success. Either that or youre one of "those guys" who takes everybodys bid avoid layer... alpa will not and cannot improve our QOL. our QOL is already better than most alpa regionals. ok now prove me wrong with your alpa supplied homework... ha ha ha ha
120% Torque
Well-known member
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Guaranteed he did not read one tenth of what I wrote. These guys come into skywest from some two bit carrier who had ALPA thinking Skywest/SAPA is the answer and it takes several years to find out they are wrong. I've seen it repeated so many times its like that movie "Ground Hog Dog", only things get worse toward the end of the movie instead of better. I've watched even the biggest Anti-ALPA guys who do their little tap dance like these guys are doing...the know it alls, lets call them do a 180 about year 4 or 5. Its funny and ridiculous at the same time. Whats that saying about those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it?! These are more of the sheep that will will be hearded into that group.
I have said repeatedly ALPA IS NOT PERFECT and ALPA will not win you the lottery but in contrast to what is happening at skywest it most assuredly is better than nothing/Sapa!
Last edited:
CFIT
Gimme your money
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2005
- Posts
- 821
Then why in the hell did you come to SkyWest from your other wonderful "Alpa" carriers?
It was like this when you got here, why go postal now? Unless you like to hear yourself rant.
But really, based on you first 6 page post (get a life), you need therapy.....
120% Torque
Well-known member
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Gr82Aviate
Well-known member
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- Aug 9, 2004
- Posts
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Maybe he is actually concerned enough to want to try and educate people, so they will get their heads out of the sand and see the truth!
120% Torque
Well-known member
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If you want to have an intelligent debate then why dont you write a similar document refuting the point that I am making...that SAPA sucks worst than ALPA. The job we do and conditions/pay we work under are inseperably connected to quality of life when accounting for income, days off, ability to get days, working conditions, etc. Doing a little research and making an effort to help myself and those around me is a small price to pay for what is at stake. It is people like you that dont bother researching beyond your own meager experience who are the problem. Thats right, go bury your head in the sand only to come up to spew your anti-alpa mantra until you realise Jerry and Co wasnt the kind fatherly figure you thought he was when he introduced you to your new hire class 8 months ago.
Gr82Aviate
Well-known member
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Although I've never thought ALPA was the greatest thing since sliced bread, it seems lately SAPA is unwilling or unable to accomplish anything other than management directives/orders...leaving us with ALPA as a lesser evil !
CFIT
Gimme your money
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- 821
All good, take all these uneducated, miserable, people to another carrier with one of those incredible contracts from ALPA, like ASA, and it will be peace on earth.
The only alternative is to pull their head out take in some O2 and realize today's airline environment.
CFIT
Gimme your money
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120% Torque
Well-known member
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The truth and reality, two things you seem to steer clear of are that Skywest hurt ASA's negotiations. If the pilots of Skywest, the most profitable regional in the industry had raised the bar and not taken the very highly slanted advice of Sapa (ie 99 seats for 50 seat pay, and now no hard raise...only a deceptive overide pay program that doesnt seem to be applicable in so many cases its making heads spin, work rule losses, etc) the pilots of ASA would probably have had a contract. Skywest is hurting everone including themselves when they let their future get tossed to the dogs every time sapa meets with their boss. Ill give you a hint, the working pilot at skywest is not sapa's boss.
120% Torque
Well-known member
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You have been at skywest for 17 years? There is only one reasonable explanation, you are a part of Sapa? I want a a truthful answer?
inthegoo
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2003
- Posts
- 308
Voice In The Union Of Your Choice!
When you call the number, choose the option to voice in another union, maybe teamsters? Horizon guys/gals seem to be quite happy.
-Goo
When you call the number, choose the option to voice in another union, maybe teamsters? Horizon guys/gals seem to be quite happy.
-Goo
CFIT
Gimme your money
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2005
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- 821
Yes, and so are you. You can place your pissed off energy at making it work or take it to another carrier, but your type of arogant attitude is getting old for those of us that have been here when the rules were very different.
1. and ive been here for 2 years... you can now say how i dont know the industry ill change my mind... ive been in the business long enough... i knew the pay and work rules when i took the job.. SkyWest is and will always be better than most alpa regionals. you cannot argue that.. alpa is a poweless dying artifact of the way things used to be.
continue hating... oh and who do i thank for the lunches?
Exskydiverdrivr
still fly a load or two
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2005
- Posts
- 391
And if ALPA wins will you kindly reciprocate?
(Hopefully looking forward to moving up a number.)
CFIT
Gimme your money
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2005
- Posts
- 821
Probably, if the union gets in here it will be the worst place to be anyway.
It will be funny watching all those with ALPA stickers on their flight case peeling them off because management sees them as a target.
120% Torque
Well-known member
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- Oct 17, 2002
- Posts
- 277
Do you fly the CRJ or EMB? How long have you been a Check Airman?
CFIT
Gimme your money
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2005
- Posts
- 821
Metro, Emb, CRJ, no LCA.
How long have you been here?
Was SAPA in place when you applied?
Ever hard flown 9.5 hours + and 12 legs in a Metro for 7.1 hours of pay?
Maybe you don't know all that has occured?
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