for the XJ guys

[flap operator]

I don't think as seasoned XJ pilots we have the right to complain about the uniform standards of our new folks. Until we get back to where our uniform standards used to be and everyone who has been here longer than 1.5 years leads by example, we only have ourselves to blame.

Where do you think the new hires get the idea the hat is optional? From us. Last time I checked, the FOM still requires the hat and don't give me the BS of "well it's practically optional because of that almost new policy 4 years ago." Until the entire pilot group wears the shirts, pants, sweaters, ties, epaulets and hat the way they're issued from m&h, we can only look at ourselves as setting a poor example for our new folks.

I saw a new 200 FO DH'ing on my plane a few months ago without his tie and wearing a hunting camo puffy vest. If I wasn't busy dealing with MELs, 45 people trying to get on the 34 seat saab (200 gowngrade), a missing FA and the weather, I would have said somethng to him.

The other problem is that our mgmt doesn't do anything to enforce our uniform standards. Unfortunately, I think it's too out of control for them to start enforcing. It's too bad, we used to really have a sharp looking pilot group.

 

[WIPilot]

I don't think as seasoned XJ pilots we have the right to complain about the uniform standards of our new folks. Until we get back to where our uniform standards used to be and everyone who has been here longer than 1.5 years leads by example, we only have ourselves to blame.

Where do you think the new hires get the idea the hat is optional? From us. Last time I checked, the FOM still requires the hat and don't give me the BS of "well it's practically optional because of that almost new policy 4 years ago." Until the entire pilot group wears the shirts, pants, sweaters, ties, epaulets and hat the way they're issued from m&h, we can only look at ourselves as setting a poor example for our new folks.

I saw a new 200 FO DH'ing on my plane a few months ago without his tie and wearing a hunting camo puffy vest. If I wasn't busy dealing with MELs, 45 people trying to get on the 34 seat saab (200 gowngrade), a missing FA and the weather, I would have said somethng to him.

The other problem is that our mgmt doesn't do anything to enforce our uniform standards. Unfortunately, I think it's too out of control for them to start enforcing. It's too bad, we used to really have a sharp looking pilot group.

As a newer XJ guy I couldnt agree more. I think just as many senior xj guys bend the rules as the youngins....if not more so.

With that said...I do agree that to go without a tie just looks silly, even if you arent wearing the stripes.

 

[big shacks]

If we care so much about appearance, then how about cleaning the SAAB! Screw the hat clean the plane its embarrassing, oh and no more bolt ons. Set your alarm an extra ten minutes and tie a tie!

 

[filejw]

On the iPod note ... I see a lot of NWA guys walking around DTW with the stupid white earbuds and wires hanging down to their pockets. It looks horrible. So it's not just at regional level.

Hey! There is enough people around here trying to tell me what to do. If I want to listen to music or a ball game believe me after 30 years here that's what I'm going to do. You remind me of the manager that told the FA's not to eat ice cream cones. Get a life.

 

[CptMurf]

On the iPod note ... I see a lot of NWA guys walking around DTW with the stupid white earbuds and wires hanging down to their pockets. It looks horrible. So it's not just at regional level.

WTF those are "old school" hearing aids. They all flew the "lectra."

 

[filejw]

WTF those are "old school" hearing aids. They all flew the "lectra."

"lectra" man those guys are long gone. CV580 and M 404 maybe.

 

[Hollywood82]

What's this about a hat? Being 135 I though those things were gone years ago.... I better rethink this whole 121 thing. SERIOUSLY???????

 

[xjlifer]

You can wear a hat....or carry a hat...or wait till you upgrade to start wearing a hat...or not wear a hat. Those seem to be most of the options regarding the hat.

 

[filejw]

Or maybe somebody from NWA FLT OPS will send down word to throw the dam things in the trash....LOL

 

[Hollywood82]

If they require it I will wear it. I already hate the idea of wearing that thing though.

It seems there are only 2 types of pilots who like to wear that hat.
A) Bald pilots
B) Nerd pilots, the same type to wear a uniform (4 stripes) while flying a Seneca or Cirrus 135. Yes they do exist, and they suck.

 

[flap operator]

OR the third type... the ones that wear the hat because it's apart of the uniform. Why do people think they can pick and choose the rules they have to follow? I don't choose to violate rest requirements, duty times, calls, SOPs and other rules set forth in our manuals. So why is it ok to violate other rules? Oh... because the hat isn't safety related or something like that.

We expect the company to follow our contract. Why is it so hard to uphold our end of the bargain and follow the FOM, which is in a way another contract between the pilots and mgmt?

I'm not by any means a company man, but there are certain policies that we ought to follow as professionals. We are professionals right? We probably ought to act like them.

 

[xjlifer]

Have you EVER violated sterile cockpit procedures?
Ever read any magazine or newspaper in cruise?
Fail to give a brief to the F.A's on Every leg?

Those are also in the F.O.M. Make sure you do them all...every time.

 

[flap operator]

Of course I may have vioilated the rules above, I'm not perfect. I try however to not blatantly and intentionally violate the rules. Everyone is guilty of breaking some sort of rule here and there. It doens't make it right though. We're all hypocrites to a certain extent, but I hope that we aren't carelessly breaking procedure. The hat issue is something that is so clearly violated and out in the open it just seems like such a simple rule to follow.

My whole point is that maybe before we start complaining about our new hires breaking the rules, maybe we ought to be looking at ourselves first, as example setters for our new pilots.

 

[fowingman]

i for one wear my uniform, i dont wear a hat, don't even own a ipod, nor oakley sunglasses. my question is who really cares. are the pay checks coming every two weeks YES! So why do i care about how the public views the few guys who wear a non standard jacket or have a backpack. how is my job affected by those things, THEY ARENT, load factors are still very high, despite the ipod pilots.

i mean come on don't you guys think that of all the issues facing our jobs today, maybe our focus is a bit askew, or maybe we shouldn't have time for the cosmetic problems.

 

[CptMurf]

My whole point is that maybe before we start complaining about our new hires breaking the rules, maybe we ought to be looking at ourselves first, as example setters for our new pilots.

Although I agree with you (we sure set the standard for our FO's), give up on the hat. You are fighting an uphill battle with the ground falling away behind you. Show an example with how you wear the rest of the uniform, if you choose to wear a hat great, if not who cares. I in fact have gone in cycles, sometimes I choose to wear it sometimes not.

 

[Hollywood82]

OR the third type... the ones that wear the hat because it's apart of the uniform. Why do people think they can pick and choose the rules they have to follow? I don't choose to violate rest requirements, duty times, calls, SOPs and other rules set forth in our manuals. So why is it ok to violate other rules? Oh... because the hat isn't safety related or something like that.

We expect the company to follow our contract. Why is it so hard to uphold our end of the bargain and follow the FOM, which is in a way another contract between the pilots and mgmt?

I'm not by any means a company man, but there are certain policies that we ought to follow as professionals. We are professionals right? We probably ought to act like them.

Read a little closer Flap Operator. I said "It seems there are only 2 types of pilots who LIKE to wear that hat." I also said if they require it I will wear it, doesn't mean I will like it though. I still stand by what I said about the only 2 types of pilots who LIKE to wear the hat. The others wear it and tolerate it.

If it's part of the uniform you should wear it, if you like it it's a whole different story.

The hat isn't required for FOs, is it?

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to ruffle everyones feathers.

 

[flap operator]

I'm not judging people who don't wear their hat... I don't really care actually. I just think that we ought to be setting better examples for our new hires and that it's funny what rules we pick and choose to follow. What makes the new hires think they can start breaking rules right away? I was never than "comfortable" when I was new. I'm not on some warpath for the hats, just an observation.

Hollywood - FYI the policy in the FOM requires a full uniform when at work, including the hat.

 

[Hollywood82]

I'm not judging people who don't wear their hat... I don't really care actually. I just think that we ought to be setting better examples for our new hires and that it's funny what rules we pick and choose to follow. What makes the new hires think they can start breaking rules right away? I was never than "comfortable" when I was new. I'm not on some warpath for the hats, just an observation.

Hollywood - FYI the policy in the FOM requires a full uniform when at work, including the hat.

I am chief of a 135 company right now and I can tell you that pilots are like 1st graders. If you make a rule and don't enforce it they will walk all over that rule. Enforce it they will complain a little and a few days or weeks later the problem will be over. If they don't stop complaining then maybe the rule is unreasonable, change it.

If XJ was serious about this rule they would enforce it. If the FAA was serious about this rule they would enforce it.

By the way flap operator, there is a law on the books in MN that says all bathtubs have to have legs. Do you think that law is enforced?

I follow the rules, but how big of a deal is this thing anyway? Management doesn't enforce it because it's not important to them.

 

[Hollywood82]

double post

 

[sopdan]

What about zipper ties??? I wear one of those... oh, and I've never worn my hat, I am a horrible person and a disgrace to the company.... nevermind the CAs (8+ years at XJ) in my class that sincerely told us (newhires at the time) to not worry about wearing the hat.