for the XJ guys

[flap operator]

OR the third type... the ones that wear the hat because it's apart of the uniform. Why do people think they can pick and choose the rules they have to follow? I don't choose to violate rest requirements, duty times, calls, SOPs and other rules set forth in our manuals. So why is it ok to violate other rules? Oh... because the hat isn't safety related or something like that.

We expect the company to follow our contract. Why is it so hard to uphold our end of the bargain and follow the FOM, which is in a way another contract between the pilots and mgmt?

I'm not by any means a company man, but there are certain policies that we ought to follow as professionals. We are professionals right? We probably ought to act like them.

 

[xjlifer]

Have you EVER violated sterile cockpit procedures?
Ever read any magazine or newspaper in cruise?
Fail to give a brief to the F.A's on Every leg?

Those are also in the F.O.M. Make sure you do them all...every time.

 

[flap operator]

Of course I may have vioilated the rules above, I'm not perfect. I try however to not blatantly and intentionally violate the rules. Everyone is guilty of breaking some sort of rule here and there. It doens't make it right though. We're all hypocrites to a certain extent, but I hope that we aren't carelessly breaking procedure. The hat issue is something that is so clearly violated and out in the open it just seems like such a simple rule to follow.

My whole point is that maybe before we start complaining about our new hires breaking the rules, maybe we ought to be looking at ourselves first, as example setters for our new pilots.

 

[fowingman]

i for one wear my uniform, i dont wear a hat, don't even own a ipod, nor oakley sunglasses. my question is who really cares. are the pay checks coming every two weeks YES! So why do i care about how the public views the few guys who wear a non standard jacket or have a backpack. how is my job affected by those things, THEY ARENT, load factors are still very high, despite the ipod pilots.

i mean come on don't you guys think that of all the issues facing our jobs today, maybe our focus is a bit askew, or maybe we shouldn't have time for the cosmetic problems.

 

[CptMurf]

My whole point is that maybe before we start complaining about our new hires breaking the rules, maybe we ought to be looking at ourselves first, as example setters for our new pilots.

Although I agree with you (we sure set the standard for our FO's), give up on the hat. You are fighting an uphill battle with the ground falling away behind you. Show an example with how you wear the rest of the uniform, if you choose to wear a hat great, if not who cares. I in fact have gone in cycles, sometimes I choose to wear it sometimes not.

 

[Hollywood82]

OR the third type... the ones that wear the hat because it's apart of the uniform. Why do people think they can pick and choose the rules they have to follow? I don't choose to violate rest requirements, duty times, calls, SOPs and other rules set forth in our manuals. So why is it ok to violate other rules? Oh... because the hat isn't safety related or something like that.

We expect the company to follow our contract. Why is it so hard to uphold our end of the bargain and follow the FOM, which is in a way another contract between the pilots and mgmt?

I'm not by any means a company man, but there are certain policies that we ought to follow as professionals. We are professionals right? We probably ought to act like them.

Read a little closer Flap Operator. I said "It seems there are only 2 types of pilots who LIKE to wear that hat." I also said if they require it I will wear it, doesn't mean I will like it though. I still stand by what I said about the only 2 types of pilots who LIKE to wear the hat. The others wear it and tolerate it.

If it's part of the uniform you should wear it, if you like it it's a whole different story.

The hat isn't required for FOs, is it?

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to ruffle everyones feathers.

 

[flap operator]

I'm not judging people who don't wear their hat... I don't really care actually. I just think that we ought to be setting better examples for our new hires and that it's funny what rules we pick and choose to follow. What makes the new hires think they can start breaking rules right away? I was never than "comfortable" when I was new. I'm not on some warpath for the hats, just an observation.

Hollywood - FYI the policy in the FOM requires a full uniform when at work, including the hat.

 

[Hollywood82]

I'm not judging people who don't wear their hat... I don't really care actually. I just think that we ought to be setting better examples for our new hires and that it's funny what rules we pick and choose to follow. What makes the new hires think they can start breaking rules right away? I was never than "comfortable" when I was new. I'm not on some warpath for the hats, just an observation.

Hollywood - FYI the policy in the FOM requires a full uniform when at work, including the hat.

I am chief of a 135 company right now and I can tell you that pilots are like 1st graders. If you make a rule and don't enforce it they will walk all over that rule. Enforce it they will complain a little and a few days or weeks later the problem will be over. If they don't stop complaining then maybe the rule is unreasonable, change it.

If XJ was serious about this rule they would enforce it. If the FAA was serious about this rule they would enforce it.

By the way flap operator, there is a law on the books in MN that says all bathtubs have to have legs. Do you think that law is enforced?

I follow the rules, but how big of a deal is this thing anyway? Management doesn't enforce it because it's not important to them.

 

[Hollywood82]

double post

 

[sopdan]

What about zipper ties??? I wear one of those... oh, and I've never worn my hat, I am a horrible person and a disgrace to the company.... nevermind the CAs (8+ years at XJ) in my class that sincerely told us (newhires at the time) to not worry about wearing the hat.

 

[Max Q]

What's with all the fashion advice? The kind of pilot that has to be told how to maintain a professional appearance (both in dress and attitude) over a message board has no business there to begin with.

-Brett

 

[xjcaptain]

What about zipper ties??? I wear one of those... oh, and I've never worn my hat, I am a horrible person and a disgrace to the company.... nevermind the CAs (8+ years at XJ) in my class that sincerely told us (newhires at the time) to not worry about wearing the hat.

That's what you get for listening to "Junior" guys
Guys this job is about as easy as it gets. If you need guidance about uniforms etc........it's probably in the FOM. If you heard something else, it's their opinion. Stop by Joe's office I'm sure he could give you some fashion advice.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

That's what you get for listening to "Junior" guys
Guys this job is about as easy as it gets. If you need guidance about uniforms etc........it's probably in the FOM. If you heard something else, it's their opinion. Stop by Joe's office I'm sure he could give you some fashion advice.

Forget fashion advice from Joe... I want to know how I too can get a boat named "The Extra Tenth". imp:

 

[xjcaptain]

Forget fashion advice from Joe... I want to know how I too can get a boat named "The Extra Tenth". imp:

You could probably buy his.........I'm sure he's upgraded since the mid 90's!!!!!!!!1

 

[Rook]

You'll be joining a great group of pilots. And this is coming from a former 9E'r. The XJ DTW guys welcomed me with open arms as the only 9E guy attending during one of their 2002 picketing events and I've been great friends with a lot of their pilots ever since. Good luck!

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

I agree with everything said but just as a side note, I've only regularly seen 2 guys wearing the black fleece in lieu of the coat in DTW, and they are both rather well liked captains who've been with the company for quite some time.

Doesn't make it right...

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

Hey! There is enough people around here trying to tell me what to do. If I want to listen to music or a ball game believe me after 30 years here that's what I'm going to do. You remind me of the manager that told the FA's not to eat ice cream cones. Get a life.

I remember that ice cream cone thing...was that really true? Seems like something that'd come from a powertool NW manager who got laughed at in the shower after gym class all through high school and now has a bit of authority!

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

I am chief of a 135 company right now and I can tell you that pilots are like 1st graders. If you make a rule and don't enforce it they will walk all over that rule. Enforce it they will complain a little and a few days or weeks later the problem will be over. If they don't stop complaining then maybe the rule is unreasonable, change it.

If XJ was serious about this rule they would enforce it. If the FAA was serious about this rule they would enforce it.

By the way flap operator, there is a law on the books in MN that says all bathtubs have to have legs. Do you think that law is enforced?

I follow the rules, but how big of a deal is this thing anyway? Management doesn't enforce it because it's not important to them.

In theory you are correct...in reality, XJ has one (yes ONE) chief pilot for 1100 pilots scattered over 3 domiciles not to mention outstations...enforcing the hat thing is next to impossible and XJ's having problems keeping up with day-to-day things what with all the hiring and growth...so it's not the same as enforcing the rules at a small charter outfit or flight school...

 

[CptMurf]

In theory you are correct...in reality, XJ has one (yes ONE) chief pilot for 1100 pilots scattered over 3 domiciles not to mention outstations...enforcing the hat thing is next to impossible and XJ's having problems keeping up with day-to-day things what with all the hiring and growth...so it's not the same as enforcing the rules at a small charter outfit or flight school...

They didn't enforce it when they had 5 chief pilots...at least one in each domicile. Why would they start now. I have not seen a CP care about the hat since Jim R in DTW ala 2001. When NW went optional the fight was conceded. Maybe soon we can worry about hats... and double breasted suits for that matter, but for now give it a rest.

 

[xjhawk]

I agree with those that "wear" fleeces, they are comfortable and work better than the overcoat. I also think the leather jacket is a better option. The leather jacket sparks an even more rediculous debate over what pilot should wear. I am of this opinion. The overcoat does not work, period. I have been to I Falls, Regina, Thunderbay etc and I loved the way the ocercoat blew around and did not keep me warm. But it does do okay in the rain. That said, the leather Jacket would work well in a cool spring day scenerio or a cold winter day (or even in the rain). I wish the fleece and leather jacket were options. But spongebob spanjers does not like them. Oh, and as for ipods, when you spart gettting me paid when I am walking around the airport, stretching my legs between flights or on ready reserve, then you can tell me I cannot listen to my ipod. For that matter, if you say the ipod is wrong, I call you a idiot because if you use your phone, you are doing the same thing. I wonder if this debate came up way back when the mobile phone was a new device? Oh I must add, some peoples defeinition of a professional pilot and his/her uniform is defined by the 1970's. I for one am not in any way thinking polyester pants and Jacket, white shirt and hat make me look cool. I am just looking for funtional and comfort.

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

They didn't enforce it when they had 5 chief pilots...at least one in each domicile. Why would they start now. I have not seen a CP care about the hat since Jim R in DTW ala 2001. When NW went optional the fight was conceded. Maybe soon we can worry about hats... and double breasted suits for that matter, but for now give it a rest.

Point taken! But then, Jim R didn't care about a valid medical either! Just for the record, I don't like hats either...

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

I agree with those that "wear" fleeces, they are comfortable and work better than the overcoat. I also think the leather jacket is a better option. The leather jacket sparks an even more rediculous debate over what pilot should wear. I am of this opinion. The overcoat does not work, period. I have been to I Falls, Regina, Thunderbay etc and I loved the way the ocercoat blew around and did not keep me warm. But it does do okay in the rain. That said, the leather Jacket would work well in a cool spring day scenerio or a cold winter day (or even in the rain). I wish the fleece and leather jacket were options. But spongebob spanjers does not like them. Oh, and as for ipods, when you spart gettting me paid when I am walking around the airport, stretching my legs between flights or on ready reserve, then you can tell me I cannot listen to my ipod. For that matter, if you say the ipod is wrong, I call you a idiot because if you use your phone, you are doing the same thing. I wonder if this debate came up way back when the mobile phone was a new device? Oh I must add, some peoples defeinition of a professional pilot and his/her uniform is defined by the 1970's. I for one am not in any way thinking polyester pants and Jacket, white shirt and hat make me look cool. I am just looking for funtional and comfort.

I agree that leather is the best option for what we do...maybe when Johnnyretard is weeded out we can have them....if we got them now they'd need extra-big change pockets...

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I had to wear the leather coat at a charter company back in the day.... They are NOT even close to warm. Trust me one day of 20 degrees and a breeze and you'll be begging to bring back the trenchcoat.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

I had to wear the leather coat at a charter company back in the day.... They are NOT even close to warm. Trust me one day of 20 degrees and a breeze and you'll be begging to bring back the trenchcoat.

I dunno about that one. I got the leather jacket at my new company promptly retired the London Fog. The leather worked quite nicely in Barrow in February. -44. F or C doesn't matter at -44!

 

[Hollywood82]

crap! 121 career put on hold

You'll be joining a great group of pilots. And this is coming from a former 9E'r. The XJ DTW guys welcomed me with open arms as the only 9E guy attending during one of their 2002 picketing events and I've been great friends with a lot of their pilots ever since. Good luck!

I look forward to it. Unfortunately, I wont be in class for a long time. I have recieved an email from XJ HR explaining that they wont need any new hires till August at the earliest, so I'm swimming in the hiring pool.

I interviewed in late April and I hear there are alot of guys in front of me. I was told all the CRJ FO slots were filled internally (Saab guys). I thought that would open up some Saab FO slots but I guess not.

How do they pull pilots from the hiring pool? Is it based on the date that they offered employment or is it random?

 

[WIPilot]

I thought that would open up some Saab FO slots but I guess not.

The only reason they let us bid for the 900 is because they severely overstaffed us in the saab during the hiring spree.

I could imagine some saab spots could open up august and beyond though.

 

[Hollywood82]

Anybody have an idea of how many guys are in the hiring pool and in what order we will be selected when hiring resumes?

 

[gnx99]

The trench-coat is a horrible excuse for a winter jacket. I'll take a leather jacket for winter use any day. Both are ugly by the way

 

[xjhawk]

I had to wear the leather coat at a charter company back in the day.... They are NOT even close to warm. Trust me one day of 20 degrees and a breeze and you'll be begging to bring back the trenchcoat.

Okay as for the trench coat, I have felt that cold winter breeze and the cold I felt on my back and for that matter my front was becuase of the trench coat. I used to have a leather coat i wore here in MN, I could wear that thing on the coldest days and even wear it on a barely chilly day in the spring.

To talk about hiring, well things have slowed. I am not in the know, but I have been told that they have cancelled any CRJ 200 ground schools they had planned until at least OCT. That sucks huh? As for other hiring, who knows, we are getting the remaining 900's (notice I did not call them "9's") and some have to go to the mighty Saab. I hear a few rumors, mostly from mechanic types. One is they think we will not get anymore 200's and possibly might lose them too. The other thing is that they are finding too much corrosion on the Saabs we have to think about keeping them. Did I also hear they had to park a couple because they were too badly corroded? Remember these are just rumors. But I will say, the first person to tell me the Avros were leaving "for sure" was a MEchanic. enough said.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Saabs are too corroded? But think of all the money they saved by not having them cleaned! I mean a new tail can't cost as much as a clean and polish a few times a year, could it?