For Pilots, Dreams Run Into Reality

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Maybe CAPA is the organization to do this? I think almost every major airline group is a part of that organization. .

CAPA is five pilot labor groups...

NPA
SWAPA
APA
IBT
IPA

They have a small bank account. They are building influence... but I don't think they or ALPA gov't affairs has the pull to bring about a guild.

The only way to bring about significant change such as a guild... is a huge demonstration of leverage and power...

 

[retired guy]

You people are dreaming. There won`t be a guild or a national senority list. Not now, not ever. The airline industry works on a senority system. Out.

 

[waveflyer]

You people are dreaming. There won`t be a guild or a national senority list. Not now, not ever. The airline industry works on a senority system. Out.

Sounds like a quote from someone who had a relatively stable career. Good for you.
You're retired? It was your generation who should have seen this coming. It was you who first allowed B-scaling and the eventual breaking of our unions. It was you who first allowed your scope to be expanded and violated over and over. So excuse me if i don't think your opinion is overwhelmingly credible.

The seniority system and a pattern bargaining system that worked very well before 1978, does not work so well today- unless you think the idea of starting completely over at 1st year pay several times in the average career is a good idea.

Rez-
what you're asking for is a dissertation. One i've given before in various threads -
If i give one complete version will you promise i won't have to re-write it on every thread that this ever affects- which is most of them...? I'll do it for you. Because it is a logical conclusion that takes some steps to get to.

 

[Lear70]

Maybe you should save it to disk and be able to reference it to insert in whatever thread is appropriate...

Rez knows I kid, even though we disagree on some things, we know there has to be a change to move forward.

Retired guy, I know you don't understand. Life has passed you by. You're in your golden years and don't understand that people are ready to change with the times. We recognize that change needs to be made, and we're willing to forge ahead with that change.

I'm glad you had what, evidently, was a stable career. I'm not saying that seniority is wrong... it's the basis for everything we do, and I'm not trying to change it.

What I *AM* trying to change, is the "eating of the young" that ALPA started in the early 80's with B-scales and Scope outsourcing that has lead to where we are now.

It's time for change. Get on the bus, or consign yourself to mediocrity.

Pick one.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez-
what you're asking for is a dissertation.

Well..... yeah... If you are going to suggest to turn our seniorty system upside down.... then details details, details....

One i've given before in various threads -

I haven't seen it... but that doesn't mean its not there...

If i give one complete version will you promise i won't have to re-write it on every thread that this ever affects- which is most of them...? I'll do it for you. Because it is a logical conclusion that takes some steps to get to.

Let's see what you got... if your idea passes the moniker message board judgement then it should have merit....

IOW.... Bring it ON!!

 

[waveflyer]

give me some time- i'll get it on here.

In the meantime= Lear- maybe you could do the same w/ the guild idea

know that my attachment isn't to any one particular solution. We just need some sort of leverage to combat the fact that management knows we will cut off our ba()s before we'll start over at first year poverty wages - they play on our fear.
The guild is a good idea. So is cooperation among carriers to flatten out the payscales and stop end loading them-- raise 1st year pay- at least w/ the lost of bidding seniority-= you'll be able to survive. That may be leverage enough to hold the line on pay. But right now.....
$30k first year at most major airlines.... 50%+ of the pilots at most weak airlines (ie: all of us) will choose a concession before being subjected to that and the interview process again.... That's our problem.

The solution can be in many forms...

 

[Brasilia Pup]

The grasser is always greener on the other side, so they say...

 

[inline]

Sounds good! What about ... the RLA.

Facing the ravages of a system that forces us to stay with a loser is by design! It was intended from the begining....

If you want to change it... then you are going to have to pry it from the dead cold fingers of the old white men that control the distribution of wealth in this country... and soon.... the globe.

Sounds good. Count me in....

So now it's old white men's fault too. Good grief.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So now it's old white men's fault too. Good grief.

Who controls the distribution of wealth in this country? Is it not Old White Men?

 

[Lear70]

So now it's old white men's fault too. Good grief.

I think you missed the point.

The "old white men" is referring to the House, the Senate, the NMB, and the CEO's and CFO's that control the airlines from the top.

Hope that helps.