For All You FLOPS BJ Pilots, a little memory lane action

[jonjuan]

I guess that $10.2 Million Dollar fine against WN was in my imagination?

At actual, professionally run organizations, the management's relationships with FAA are often used to prevent government levied sanctions from being imposed, and allowing training and administrative sanction to be imposed instead.

Just my imagination, I'm sure.

So, WN isn't a professionally run organization?

 

[Tristar]

There isn't one managment team in any air carrier that is willing to break the rules.

Wow, not even out of March and I think we have a very strong contender for

FlightInfo's most moronic post of the year!

Exactly how much glue had you been sniffing when you came up with that gem?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Wow, not even out of March and I think we have a very strong contender for

FlightInfo's most moronic post of the year!

Exactly how much glue had you been sniffing when you came up with that gem?

The same glue you were sniffing by thinking that a union was good for your career.

I've seen a lot more pilots take things into their own hands thinking that they can get away with something than I ever have management intentionally making a decision to break an FAR.

Perhaps it's because management understands how easy it is to get caught and pilots think they can get away with it.

Oh, and about the injunctions agains unions.....

 

[B19 Flyer]

How could that possibly be?????

I guess that $10.2 Million Dollar fine against WN was in my imagination?

Or the $10 Million dollar management "mistake" at TAG over operational control issues?

Just my imagination, I'm sure.

Remember, those are your union bretheren breaking the rules at WN. They are one of the most heavily unionized carriers in existence.

All the union mongers on this board tell about how wonderful the union is at policing management, yet the fines still happened.... how could that possibly be?????

 

[Tristar]

Perhaps it's because management understands how easy it is to get caught and pilots think they can get away with it.

Wow, less than ten minutes later and we have a:

Runner up for FI's most Moronic post of the year.

Yeah, that's why managements throughout the entire industry push pilots to violate contracts and FAR's - eg; duty times, flying fatigued, performing proper maintenance, ect.

No, in fact management knows how EASY it is to get away with it. You're just careful to it in ways that can't be traced back to you - pilot's don't really have that luxury.

I don't believe a union is all that great for my career. Neither is working for a bunch of dirtballs who will lie, cheat, and steal every chance they can - which history definitely proves to be the typical post-deregulation model in the aviation industry. There is an old saying regarding companies and unions that seems to generally be true: "They got their union the old fashioned way, they earned it!"

Remember, those are your union bretheren breaking the rules at WN. They are one of the most heavily unionized carriers in existence.

Wouldn't it be management's job to oversee operations and insure that maintenance was being performed properly? I sort of thought that was one of the keystones of that whole concept.

Who decides when/where/how to perform maintenance in the macro sense - the workers or management? An individual violation is on the hands of the worker involved, and the fines or other penalties are directed at that individual. Systemic violations and failures are in the lap of management, and accordingly the company as a whole is held responsible. What would in fact be more appropriate (and end a lot of the abuse by management) would be if individual managers were held personally accountable, and civil or criminal penalties were levied directly against them.

 

[brokeflyer]

pissin into the wind here.....

PIC "has the final authority".....can't dispute that. It's like 2+2=4.....undisputable....

sorry b19

 

[FR8DOG777]

I say again where is the accountabilty??

So Bagdad B19bob, I see your crusade to drive the infidels from the company property are growing more incompetent and desperate on a daily basis. Maybe just a coincidink buckeye checks your name against the eastern scab list and you don't post whilst on vacation abusing company assets. You, Michael, and Sonjay have done more to ruin flight options in your short tenure than anyone ever could have immagined. Management has repeatedly broken the regs. Crew shopping, could not duplicate, parking airplanes in hangers for three days without pulling a panel and signing off a C check, pushing pilots, threating pilots, intimidating pilots, playing russian roulette with the pilots, passengers, and aircraft with your little 500 am standby games. Where is the accountability for all these blunders? Who is paying for it? I'll tell you, the hard working pilots that built this company for you to tear down. A lot of good men and woman will lose their houses and disrupt their families because of your incompetence. I sure hope you enjoy your riches in this life because your just reward is coming in the next life.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Barking up the wrong tree....

So Bagdad B19bob, I see your crusade to drive the infidels from the company property are growing more incompetent and desperate on a daily basis. Maybe just a coincidink buckeye checks your name against the eastern scab list and you don't post whilst on vacation abusing company assets. You, Michael, and Sonjay have done more to ruin flight options in your short tenure than anyone ever could have immagined. Management has repeatedly broken the regs. Crew shopping, could not duplicate, parking airplanes in hangers for three days without pulling a panel and signing off a C check, pushing pilots, threating pilots, intimidating pilots, playing russian roulette with the pilots, passengers, and aircraft with your little 500 am standby games. Where is the accountability for all these blunders? Who is paying for it? I'll tell you, the hard working pilots that built this company for you to tear down. A lot of good men and woman will lose their houses and disrupt their families because of your incompetence. I sure hope you enjoy your riches in this life because your just reward is coming in the next life.

Barking up the wrong tree pal.... woof woof... it's not me. I wouldn't have put up with the crap I read on these boards.

Take your problems to your union leadership. They will fix everything for you. Isn't that what they promised?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Sorry broke, but thems the facts.

pissin into the wind here.....

PIC "has the final authority".....can't dispute that. It's like 2+2=4.....undisputable....

sorry b19

Exactly right. I agree.. always have.

However, the interpretation you use to detirmine that final authority can't be derived from a message board. Those standards are derived from only the manufacturer.

If you use YOUR standards, you are not doing your job and you should be fired as unsafe.

If you use YOUR standards to detirmine that a component is not working, that means you are also using YOUR standards to detirmine how a componant IS working. How is one to know if an item is airworthy or not if you aren't using the book as written?

In either case, you aren't doing your job properly.

Companies trend the data, they compile the data, look for outliers and find those that aren't doing their job as they were trained. Those pilots get sanctioned, unions have court injunctions slapped against them and the world is right again.

Union slowdowns have always been dangerous...Sorry broke, but thems the facts.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Unions speak with forked tongues.

Wow, less than ten minutes later and we have a:

Runner up for FI's most Moronic post of the year.

Yeah, that's why managements throughout the entire industry push pilots to violate contracts and FAR's - eg; duty times, flying fatigued, performing proper maintenance, ect.

No, in fact management knows how EASY it is to get away with it. You're just careful to it in ways that can't be traced back to you - pilot's don't really have that luxury.

I don't believe a union is all that great for my career. Neither is working for a bunch of dirtballs who will lie, cheat, and steal every chance they can - which history definitely proves to be the typical post-deregulation model in the aviation industry. There is an old saying regarding companies and unions that seems to generally be true: "They got their union the old fashioned way, they earned it!"



Wouldn't it be management's job to oversee operations and insure that maintenance was being performed properly? I sort of thought that was one of the keystones of that whole concept.

Who decides when/where/how to perform maintenance in the macro sense - the workers or management? An individual violation is on the hands of the worker involved, and the fines or other penalties are directed at that individual. Systemic violations and failures are in the lap of management, and accordingly the company as a whole is held responsible. What would in fact be more appropriate (and end a lot of the abuse by management) would be if individual managers were held personally accountable, and civil or criminal penalties were levied directly against them.

Your perception of violations is incorrect. I don't have the time this morning to school you on those. But you are way off base as far as what gets tagged to the individual and what goes toward the company.

In either case, all the people on these board scream that their the union is there to protect them. I keep telling them that the union won't be there when they need them, but nobody will listen.

Your statements are living and breathing proof that you don't care about your union intervention to make your job safer or protect your legal interests, that's still all on the company even though the union promises they will intervene. Unions speak with forked tongues. Unions don't have any legal responsibility, when things go wrong they ALWAYS pass the buck back onto management. Unions never admit one of their members made a mistake, it's always the other guy.

However..... give me the money...... because that's all a union is good for nowadays... and that's your basic union attitude.

When something goes wrong, you union guys always blame the company even though the union promises that they will intervene and change policy for the better.