Follow your contract :HOTEL VANS

[waka]

but Right seat CA over here whined his way onto FI to garner sympathy and I aint about to give it to him. In fact, since he wont disclose (read lie) about what really happened and only told the portion to make him look good, I just razzed him a bit...so grow a pair and suck it up or not - whatever...IDK.

You're being very presumptuous. I have been in similar situations in which the other pilot was on the opposite side of the labor/management fence and always trying to do management favors. I would follow such policies to the letter.

I don't think the post was fishing for sympathy at all. As a matter of fact. his post was mildly entertaining.

 

[Tristar]

Wes - While one can debate/discuss the specific tactics employed in this case, I commend you on your strategy. Stand up for what you have, and demand what you are worth.

Yeah, I dont blame the guy, its hard to argue with an idiot...

Front9, good to see you've finally quit talking to yourself in the mirror. I'm guessing your avatar is a group portrait - that must be you on the left.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Not so long ago...In a galaxy far far away.

So Capt. D-bag arranges a contractually non- compliant van ride for the last day of our 10 day (insert sarcasm here) trip. Although he does not directly inform me of this, I discover that he intends to have the crew on a van that departs the hotel 1 hour and 30 minutes before our scheduled departure. (One hour is contract compliant) Since I can look out my window and see the terminal building, I call the company and imform them that I will not be leaving on that van and will leave on the next one. In the morning I receive a call from the hotel clerk saying the crew is looking for me. I asked her to inform the Captain that I will depart the hotel in a contractually compliant manner. When I arrive at the gate early I see D-bag in the jetway

D-bag: Oh! you made it!

Me: Why wouldn't I, I can see the terminal from my hotel window.

D-bag: I informed you on what van we were going to take.

Me: No you didn't. But it doesn't matter, I wasn't going to take a van not in compliance with our contract.

D-bag: The flight attendants heard me.

Me: It doesn't matter, what's that got to do with anything?

D-Bag: Well, I guess we need to have your hearing checked.

Me: Are you implying I am unfit to fly?

D-Bag: (Enraged) That's it! I've had enough!. Do you want off this trip!? Because I'll call the Chief Pilot and have you removed!

Me: You can do whatever you want to do.

D-bag: That's it! You are off the trip! I'm calling right now!

Me: Knock yourself out. Just curious, are you going to tell him you want me off the trip because I showed up on time.

D-Bag: You're being argumentative! I can't work with you...you're gone.

Me: Go ahead man...roll the dice. Should I go ahead and call my union rep?

Pretty sure I flew with this guy recently. Are you sure it didn't feel more like a 20 day trip? Mine did.

 

[Clyde Frog]

This rings of AirTran. The 1hr prior to departure is right out of our contract when flying a standup.

 

[HAL]

Wes, good job. What you did was 100% correct. Of course people can't follow the contract letter by letter every single day. But when there's no reason for ignoring it, and the Captain blows up when you are following it, it's obvious he's on a power trip and nothing you do will please him.

Keep up the good work, and thank you AirTran guys for the jumpseat a few months back. You're a class act, even if your management doesn't recognize it. You are welcome to come out to the islands on our jumpseat any time.

HAL

 

[Bringupthebird]

I'd like to hear the other side of the story. Maybe the CA was making the van plans based on faulty info (van time from front desk, etc.). Maybe while you were out of earshot, a pushy FA was whining about not being able to get food before departing and wanted the earlier van and he gave in to shut them up.

If all the F/O is there for is checklists, then it's a single-pilot operation and the pax didn't pay their money for that.

Let's hear about the time you followed the letter of the contract and it ended up causing you to miss your flight back home and buy a hotel room.

Do you really think being belligerent (whether it's to a CA or and F/O) really helps change future behavior? Do what you like, but think about how effective your tactics are.

Let's hear about the time you followed the letter of the contract and it ended up causing you to miss your flight back home and buy a hotel room.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

I'd like to hear the other side of the story. Maybe the CA was making the van plans based on faulty info (van time from front desk, etc.). Maybe while you were out of earshot, a pushy FA was whining about not being able to get food before departing and wanted the earlier van and he gave in to shut them up.

If all the F/O is there for is checklists, then it's a single-pilot operation and the pax didn't pay their money for that.

Let's hear about the time you followed the letter of the contract and it ended up causing you to miss your flight back home and buy a hotel room.

Do you really think being belligerent (whether it's to a CA or and F/O) really helps change future behavior? Do what you like, but think about how effective your tactics are.

Let's hear about the time you followed the letter of the contract and it ended up causing you to miss your flight back home and buy a hotel room.

Classic PUI.

 

[Sandhawk]

I'd like to hear the other side of the story. Maybe the CA was making the van plans based on faulty info (van time from front desk, etc.). Maybe while you were out of earshot, a pushy FA was whining about not being able to get food before departing and wanted the earlier van and he gave in to shut them up.

If all the F/O is there for is checklists, then it's a single-pilot operation and the pax didn't pay their money for that.

Let's hear about the time you followed the letter of the contract and it ended up causing you to miss your flight back home and buy a hotel room.

Do you really think being belligerent (whether it's to a CA or and F/O) really helps change future behavior? Do what you like, but think about how effective your tactics are.

Let's hear about the time you followed the letter of the contract and it ended up causing you to miss your flight back home and buy a hotel room.

I think we just found the Captain............

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[njcapt]

I think we just found the Captain............

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

No kidding. Maybe monkeys flew out of his butt and they told him to get to the airport a freaking hour and a quarter before departure (AirTran's RON show is 45 min prior). If an FA wanted to get a Cinnabon before work, they could have gone on their own.

Wes is not a whiner or a malcontent. This DB was as F'd up as a football bat.

 

[getonit]

No kidding. Maybe monkeys flew out of his butt and they told him to get to the airport a freaking hour and a quarter before departure (AirTran's RON show is 45 min prior). If an FA wanted to get a Cinnabon before work, they could have gone on their own.

Wes is not a whiner or a malcontent. This DB was as F'd up as a football bat.

Most FA's don't need to be eating any Cinnabons, give them a bowl of oatmeal and apple.

 

[Clyde Frog]

I've had to spend many nights in a hotel, on my own dime, for following the contract/FOM. I still log all mx discrepencies and taxi at a safe speed even when I have a tight commute home. Short term pain = Long term gain.

Good for you Web. We need more guys to take a stand around here.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I think we just found the Captain............

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Nah, I've got bigger problems than these.

But, if you think that this is the most effective way to build the unity necessary to accomplish his goals, I'd have to disagree. When it comes time to vote on a lousy TA, will the folks he had a run in with want to support him and his cause?

Wes decided that Uncompliant Vans was the hill he wanted to die on. I have to ask where was he when the decision was made to switch departure times? Why did he bother calling his company to tell them he wasn't leaving with the rest of the crew?(Why would they care?) What other decisions during the flight would he decide to disregard? Is pursuing Zero Tolerance in contract compliance morally superior to maintaining a safe open-communication flight deck? How would Wes explain an incident that resulted from such a toxic flight deck environment?

And the captain that felt it was his responsibility to defuse this is called juvenile names?

He certainly has the right to his contractual rights, but I disagree with the way he decided to handle the issue.

 

[NuGuy]

weather or MEL items the Capt might have wanted some extra time to review??? there has to be something missing to "f.o. Jr Halfbright's" story here

Heyas,

It goes beyond just contractual compliance. If I report early to check weather or deal with an MEL, then I'm on the duty clock.

God forbid something bad happens later that night, and the FAA finds out you were past your legal duty day or shortchanged your rest period because you reported "early". You can BET the company would be "nope, THEY made the choice to report early, so the fatigue is ON THE CREW"

1:00 is plenty early. Any issues that are beyond that, then we can take the delay to be safe.

Nu

 

[Pickle]

NWes is not a whiner or a malcontent. This DB was as F'd up as a football bat.

^^^ That. I know Wes, I've flown with Wes. I have no dog in this fight, but what I can tell you is that if this captain elicited this response from Wes it was well deserved.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Nah, I've got bigger problems than these.

But, if you think that this is the most effective way to build the unity necessary to accomplish his goals, I'd have to disagree. When it comes time to vote on a lousy TA, will the folks he had a run in with want to support him and his cause?

Wes decided that Uncompliant Vans was the hill he wanted to die on. I have to ask where was he when the decision was made to switch departure times? Why did he bother calling his company to tell them he wasn't leaving with the rest of the crew?(Why would they care?) What other decisions during the flight would he decide to disregard? Is pursuing Zero Tolerance in contract compliance morally superior to maintaining a safe open-communication flight deck? How would Wes explain an incident that resulted from such a toxic flight deck environment?

And the captain that felt it was his responsibility to defuse this is called juvenile names?

He certainly has the right to his contractual rights, but I disagree with the way he decided to handle the issue.

The Captain instigated the labor-management relation discussion on the flight deck ( and trust me, there is no debate on where he sided, it was made very clear). However, when his feeble attempts to change my mind failed, the line between opinion and antagonism was crossed in my opinion.

And what on God's Green Earth made you think he made any attempt to defuse the situation?

And which section of our collective bargaining agreement would you have us violate on a routine basis?

Wesb






There are two ways to lead. One by example, and the other through fear and intimidation.