FOCUS: Mid level and junior NWA are toast. DAL will hold all WB upgrades in 5 years.

[737 Pylt]

737Pylt:

ASA had their own routes, ticket stock, marketing, etc.... Back when Delta bout them, they were an airline with 105 seat BAE's on the property and distant plans for a DC-9 / 737 type operation.

The fact that ValuJet is considered an airline and ASA was not is arbitrary.

I'd like the DAL/NWA merger much better if the DC-9 flying was not being transferred off the seniority list.

All Delta flying should be performed by Delta pilots.

I agree with the last sentence. As far as your thoughts on the past rjdc argument, that has been beaten ad nauseum. We'll just have to agree to disagree. When ASA was purchased by Delta, it was a regional airline........
DAL/NWA will make a good fit. I have no doubt our reps are working very hard on a fair representation for ALL pilots on the seniority list. I'm sure the NWA pilots aren't unreasonable enough to think that if the DC 9 flying is going away the Delta pilots should be the ones taking the hit for thier planes going away!

737

 

[~~~^~~~]

Beaten - yes - but I'm keeping my Swingline stapler from Bill Lumbergh's office hoping that eventually we can get Delta flying back to Delta.

Unconfirmed reports are that the DAL/NWA integration fell apart at on the NWA side of the table. Apparently DAL was prepared; the other side was still fighting battles over their previous merger and disagreements over NWA / Republic which would have given Republic guys widebodies in the newco.

Also understand the DAL guys may be spending this weekend at home.

I'm cautiously thinking the merger may be dead.

 

[Jmoney]

Now, Now.....

.....there was actually some discussion of this back in 2002....but it was squashed......

I've always advocated a form of "double staple"....rather than pure staple.....I will fight a pure staple even if means keeping up the whipsaw.....A double staple protects me and others....

One should never mix outdoor tools with indoor tools. A "whipsaw" is not a "stapler"-vice versa, and never the twain shall meet!

BTW-Please find me someone who can give an actual accepted definition of the freaking word "whipsaw!" I mean really? I am not being anti-union, but these guys do themselves no favors by constantly using such a word when they really don't understand its meaning or proper usage. The term is awkward at best, and is totally beat to death.

If you don't see my point, just consider the term "gravitas." You will see plenty of idiot "journalists" using terms like "gravitas" or "closure" exactly like we in the airline industry use the term "whipsaw." All are equally useless and all make those who employ their use look like complete fools!

 

[DTW320]

I'm sure the NWA pilots aren't unreasonable enough to think that if the DC 9 flying is going away the Delta pilots should be the ones taking the hit for thier planes going away!

You guys continue to NOT get this....the only way the DC9 flying is "going away" is if the merger happens and we get stuck with the current DAL Scope clause. If the DC9 flying goes away it will be due to the DAL scope clause. So why should NWA pilots be penalized for YOUR scope clause? The NWA scope clause prevents the -9 flying from going away unless NWA as an airline cuts all the service (lift) they provide. Parking the -30's? YES. Increasing utilization on the -40's & -50's? YES. Parking the -40's and -50's and replacing that lift with RJ's? NOT with the NWAALPA scope clause. 18 more 175's and no more unless mainline gets a new a/c on a 1 for 1 basis (not 1 for 3 like DAL). But don't let those FACTS get in the way of your hypothesis here.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

BTW-Please find me someone who can give an actual accepted definition of the freaking word "whipsaw!" I mean really?

whip·saw play_w("W0121300")http://img.tfd.com/play.swf (hw

p

sô

, w

p

-)n. A narrow two-person crosscut saw.

tr.v. whip·sawed, whip·sawed or whip·sawn (-sôn

), whip·saw·ing, whip·saws 1. To cut with a whipsaw.
2. Games To win two bets from (a person) at one time, as in faro.
3. To cause to move or alternate rapidly in contrasting directions: "The bond market . . . continues to be whipsawed by fears of rekindled inflation" Steven E. Levingston.
4. To defeat or best in two ways at once

I had a whipsaw once. I think I bought it at the Jockey Lot (the largest Flea Market in the country for anyone who cares...), but then I got married and my wife artsy wife turned it into "yard art". Apparently my career expectations as airline management are kaput..... It's very hard to whipsaw anyone when there's flowers growing out of the handles of your whipsaw... dammit...

 

[General Lee]

You guys continue to NOT get this....the only way the DC9 flying is "going away" is if the merger happens and we get stuck with the current DAL Scope clause. If the DC9 flying goes away it will be due to the DAL scope clause. So why should NWA pilots be penalized for YOUR scope clause? The NWA scope clause prevents the -9 flying from going away unless NWA as an airline cuts all the service (lift) they provide. Parking the -30's? YES. Increasing utilization on the -40's & -50's? YES. Parking the -40's and -50's and replacing that lift with RJ's? NOT with the NWAALPA scope clause. 18 more 175's and no more unless mainline gets a new a/c on a 1 for 1 basis (not 1 for 3 like DAL). But don't let those FACTS get in the way of your hypothesis here.

What about the Mesaba CR9s? How many will they get this year? Don't say they are replacing the Mesaba Avros, since they have been gone for a year. Your DC9s replaced those, and now the CR9s are replacing your DC9s. Am I wrong?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

What about the Mesaba CR9s? How many will they get this year? Don't say they are replacing the Mesaba Avros, since they have been gone for a year. Your DC9s replaced those, and now the CR9s are replacing your DC9s. Am I wrong?

Bye Bye--General Lee

Doesn't matter. Scope clause is "number of seats" specific. Not a/c type. So again, why should NWA pilots be punished by your scope clause? Ya think that's come up in NYC?

 

[General Lee]

Doesn't matter. Scope clause is "number of seats" specific. Not a/c type. So again, why should NWA pilots be punished by your scope clause? Ya think that's come up in NYC?

You bet it has come up in NYC, and we are reshuffling our flights up there right now. We are getting rid of 50 seaters and moving departure banks around to make it work. We have learned that 50 seaters don't do well with high gas. I bet you guys know that too, along with your DC9s. That is why 30 are going away this year alone.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

You bet it has come up in NYC, and we are reshuffling our flights up there right now. We are getting rid of 50 seaters and moving departure banks around to make it work. We have learned that 50 seaters don't do well with high gas. I bet you guys know that too, along with your DC9s. That is why 30 are going away this year alone.


Bye Bye--General Lee

That's not what I meant but my fault for not being more specific. I was referring to the pilot negotiations on the merger. Meeting in NY aren't they?

In any event, I agree with your comments on the 50 seaters, but reiterate my point that NWA cannot replace the lift of 68 DC9-40's and -50's with 76 seaters due to Scope.

NWAALPA Scope.

Don't get me wrong...I'm certainly not trying to brag about NWA having some great Scope clause. We shouldn't have caved to the extent that 63% did and I voted no on the TA. BUT, the fact is that it doesn't allow as much 76 seat regional flying as the DL scope does and it prevents the scenario of replacing the DC9 flying with RJ's that you keep throwing out as a fact. If they want to replace em all with enough 76 seaters to handle the 68 -9's with 110-125 seats, Great! Scope says that all the -9 pilots will be flying some other mainline a/c that was added 1 for 1 with the 76 seaters.

 

[General Lee]

That's not what I meant but my fault for not being more specific. I was referring to the pilot negotiations on the merger. Meeting in NY aren't they?

In any event, I agree with your comments on the 50 seaters, but reiterate my point that NWA cannot replace the lift of 68 DC9-40's and -50's with 76 seaters due to Scope.

NWAALPA Scope.

Don't get me wrong...I'm certainly not trying to brag about NWA having some great Scope clause. We shouldn't have caved to the extent that 63% did and I voted no on the TA. BUT, the fact is that it doesn't allow as much 76 seat regional flying as the DL scope does and it prevents the scenario of replacing the DC9 flying with RJ's that you keep throwing out as a fact. If they want to replace em all with enough 76 seaters to handle the 68 -9's with 110-125 seats, Great! Scope says that all the -9 pilots will be flying some other mainline a/c that was added 1 for 1 with the 76 seaters.

Okay, I agree with you. Time to hit the sack. Let's see what tomorrow brings. Have a good one, and thanks for the lively debate.

Bye Bye--General Lee