ATA For Now!
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Flying the Hajj
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ATA For Now!
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All depends on where you will be based for the duration.
Bring vitamin C, ehcinecea and anything else that helps stop a cold from coming on.Everyone usually ends up getting "Hajj Cough" which lasts for about 3-4 weeks.
Immodium is another safe item to bring, plan on some quality "reading time" in the john.
Bring vitamin C, ehcinecea and anything else that helps stop a cold from coming on.Everyone usually ends up getting "Hajj Cough" which lasts for about 3-4 weeks.
Immodium is another safe item to bring, plan on some quality "reading time" in the john.
ATA For Now!
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CaptBud330
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scoreboardII
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C-150ETOPS
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Most of the Hajj flights come into Jeddah at first and then near the end there is a big movement of pilgrims from Jeddah/Makkah to Medina. At the very end the pilgrims leave from Medina but mostly Jeddah. The actual Hajj is only 5 days long but the air travel starts weeks before and lasts for a week or two afterwards.
Jeddah is fairly efficient at low volumes of air traffic but they really get swamped during the Hajj. You will be dealing with air carriers from every part of the world and their original languages are everything but English. I give the controllers credit, they do a pretty decent job of keeping things safe.
They are under a lot of pressure and will occasionally be short with pilots if an error occurs. Best thing to do if there is a misunderstanding or a missed clearance is just apologize for the confusion and let it drop. The controllers don't have the time to be filing paperwork for minor violations. I hear it too many times where a western guy starts to argue with them and they end up filing violations for fairly minor stuff. (3 times just last week while I was flying).
Medina is a non-radar environment, so at the peak of the move you can plan on getting stacked for the approach. The weather during the night is fine and usually CAVOK. During the day, you will get extensive heating, moderate turbulence over the mountains, dust devils, and occasionally wind shear warnings. Saudia does not allow their FO's to land in Medina.
If you stay at THE hotel in Medina, there is only one for non-muslims, there is absolutely nothing to do. Medina is a restricted city and only muslims are allowed inside the city limits. The hotel is pretty nice, but again, NOTHING to do. They just got WIFI but it is a little pricey.
Jeddah has a lot of really nice 5 star hotels. You can go out to discover the old traditional shopping area (The Souk). The corniche (waterfront) is pretty decent experience, camel rides, lots of noise and people. If you have a few days off during the Hajj itself, there are western beaches to the north (Obhur). The girls can wear bikinis and relax a bit.
Don't believe all the hype about being dangerous. Keep an eye open like you would in any big stange city and you should be fine. If you are out walking with any of the girls from the crew, just use common sense and be respectful to their culture. Don't hold hands and no public displays of affection. The girls will have to wear the Abaya (black cloak/gown) but they don't have to cover their hair. Guys can wear shorts but usually you don't see people wearing them cut above the knee. Anything higher than the knee and they will think you are gay.
The people are friendly and will probably be curious and even ask you questions. They are just trying to be friendly. The shop keepers need to be bargained with, if you don't bargain they will just think you are stupid. You can usually get them to come down 25-30%. They aren't like the ones in Egypt trying to rip you off. I find them to be pretty honest as a whole.
Be prepared to see extremes of wealth and poverty. People driving Hummers and Lambourginis while others work for $100 a month cleaning streets and watering flowers. Tipping is not the normal thing here. I still give 10-15% at a restaurant and I slip the hotel staff 5 Saudi Riyals ($1.33 USD) for just about everything. They will love you for it.
Hope that helps, I am sitting reserve and could have probably written a book. It is a very good experience to see another culture and I hope you enjoy it.
Jeddah is fairly efficient at low volumes of air traffic but they really get swamped during the Hajj. You will be dealing with air carriers from every part of the world and their original languages are everything but English. I give the controllers credit, they do a pretty decent job of keeping things safe.
They are under a lot of pressure and will occasionally be short with pilots if an error occurs. Best thing to do if there is a misunderstanding or a missed clearance is just apologize for the confusion and let it drop. The controllers don't have the time to be filing paperwork for minor violations. I hear it too many times where a western guy starts to argue with them and they end up filing violations for fairly minor stuff. (3 times just last week while I was flying).
Medina is a non-radar environment, so at the peak of the move you can plan on getting stacked for the approach. The weather during the night is fine and usually CAVOK. During the day, you will get extensive heating, moderate turbulence over the mountains, dust devils, and occasionally wind shear warnings. Saudia does not allow their FO's to land in Medina.
If you stay at THE hotel in Medina, there is only one for non-muslims, there is absolutely nothing to do. Medina is a restricted city and only muslims are allowed inside the city limits. The hotel is pretty nice, but again, NOTHING to do. They just got WIFI but it is a little pricey.
Jeddah has a lot of really nice 5 star hotels. You can go out to discover the old traditional shopping area (The Souk). The corniche (waterfront) is pretty decent experience, camel rides, lots of noise and people. If you have a few days off during the Hajj itself, there are western beaches to the north (Obhur). The girls can wear bikinis and relax a bit.
Don't believe all the hype about being dangerous. Keep an eye open like you would in any big stange city and you should be fine. If you are out walking with any of the girls from the crew, just use common sense and be respectful to their culture. Don't hold hands and no public displays of affection. The girls will have to wear the Abaya (black cloak/gown) but they don't have to cover their hair. Guys can wear shorts but usually you don't see people wearing them cut above the knee. Anything higher than the knee and they will think you are gay.
The people are friendly and will probably be curious and even ask you questions. They are just trying to be friendly. The shop keepers need to be bargained with, if you don't bargain they will just think you are stupid. You can usually get them to come down 25-30%. They aren't like the ones in Egypt trying to rip you off. I find them to be pretty honest as a whole.
Be prepared to see extremes of wealth and poverty. People driving Hummers and Lambourginis while others work for $100 a month cleaning streets and watering flowers. Tipping is not the normal thing here. I still give 10-15% at a restaurant and I slip the hotel staff 5 Saudi Riyals ($1.33 USD) for just about everything. They will love you for it.
Hope that helps, I am sitting reserve and could have probably written a book. It is a very good experience to see another culture and I hope you enjoy it.
ATA For Now!
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If you hand out earplugs...make sure to explain and demonstrate. Experience from two occasions.
-Jordanian Soldiers returning from Afghanistan
-Iraqi voters being shuttled to voting sites
Both thought earplugs looked like(and apparently tasted-since they didn't spit them right out) CHEWING GUM!
-Jordanian Soldiers returning from Afghanistan
-Iraqi voters being shuttled to voting sites
Both thought earplugs looked like(and apparently tasted-since they didn't spit them right out) CHEWING GUM!
I love the one liners from people that have never even flown in the region. Point in case, the smelliest flight I have ever been on was from the USA to the Dominican Republic. Some Flights flying deportees to Africa can be bad and some to Dhaka, Bangladesh also. But for the most part I have never really had a problem with flights in the middle east.
Then again, I am a smoker, so my senses have been dulled.
Then again, I am a smoker, so my senses have been dulled.
Your senses must have been dulled to have anything good to say about these clowns!
Generalizations are nice crj, they keep things simple don't they? Kind of like Fox News.
When actually interacting and meeting people from other countries and cultures one on one at a personal level, I rarely find I meet anyone that I truly dislike. That can be said even if I completely disagree with many things inside their countries.
The vast majority of people in any country worldwide, worry about feeding their families and ensuring a better life for their kids. It is the small vocal minority that try and push their religion and whacko views on people. It is politicians, rulers and nut jobs that start wars, not the guy working for a living to feed his family.
As for generalizations, some of the worst acting, rude and arrogant passengers I have ever met where ones that flew out of White Plains, NY. But, that is just what I have experienced.
When actually interacting and meeting people from other countries and cultures one on one at a personal level, I rarely find I meet anyone that I truly dislike. That can be said even if I completely disagree with many things inside their countries.
The vast majority of people in any country worldwide, worry about feeding their families and ensuring a better life for their kids. It is the small vocal minority that try and push their religion and whacko views on people. It is politicians, rulers and nut jobs that start wars, not the guy working for a living to feed his family.
As for generalizations, some of the worst acting, rude and arrogant passengers I have ever met where ones that flew out of White Plains, NY. But, that is just what I have experienced.
I could not agree more, i am always amazed how the media makes the rest of the world look like nut jobs. Then i walk around the street on the other side of the planet and everyone is warm and polite.
I wold also like to second the White Plains comment, what jerks!
Interesting observation that I've had is that pilots who fly internationally and see much of the world are much more cultured, appreciative, understanding, and less stereotypical in general.
Then you meet ignorant rednecks like these and your whole perception of pilots changes again.
freightdogfred
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A few handy Arabic phrases translated to English --
AKBAR KHALI-KILI HAFTIR LOFTAN.= Thank you for showing me your marvelous gun.
FEKR GABUL CARDAN DAVAT RAEH GUSH DIVAR.= I am delighted to accept your kind invitation to lie down on the floor with my arms above my head and my legs apart.
SHOMAEH FIKR TAMOMEH GEH GOFTEK BANDE.= I agree with everything you have ever said or thought in your life.
AUTO ARRAREGH DVATEMAN MAMO SEPAHEH-HAST.= It is exceptionally kind of you to allow me to travel in the trunk of your car.
FASHAL-EH TUPEHMAN NA DEGAT MANO GOFTAM CHEESHAYEH MOHEMA RAJEBEH KESHAVAREHMAN.= If you will do me the kindness of not harming my genital appendages I will gladly reciprocate by betraying my country in public.
KHREL JEPAHEH MANEH VA JAYEII AMRKAHEY.= I will tell you the names and addresses of many American spies travelling as reporters.
BALLI, BALLI, BALLI!= Whatever you say!
MATERNIER GHERMEZ AHLIEH, GORBAN.= The red blindfold would be lovely, excellency.
TIKEH NUNEH BA OB KHRELEH BEZORG VA KHRUBE GOYAST INO BERGERAM.= The water-soaked bread crumbs are delicious, thank you. I must have the recipe.
BA BODENEH SHEERELL TEEGZ.= Truly, I would rather be a hostage to your greatly esteemed self than to spend a fortnight upon the person of Cheryl Tiegs.
AKBAR KHALI-KILI HAFTIR LOFTAN.= Thank you for showing me your marvelous gun.
FEKR GABUL CARDAN DAVAT RAEH GUSH DIVAR.= I am delighted to accept your kind invitation to lie down on the floor with my arms above my head and my legs apart.
SHOMAEH FIKR TAMOMEH GEH GOFTEK BANDE.= I agree with everything you have ever said or thought in your life.
AUTO ARRAREGH DVATEMAN MAMO SEPAHEH-HAST.= It is exceptionally kind of you to allow me to travel in the trunk of your car.
FASHAL-EH TUPEHMAN NA DEGAT MANO GOFTAM CHEESHAYEH MOHEMA RAJEBEH KESHAVAREHMAN.= If you will do me the kindness of not harming my genital appendages I will gladly reciprocate by betraying my country in public.
KHREL JEPAHEH MANEH VA JAYEII AMRKAHEY.= I will tell you the names and addresses of many American spies travelling as reporters.
BALLI, BALLI, BALLI!= Whatever you say!
MATERNIER GHERMEZ AHLIEH, GORBAN.= The red blindfold would be lovely, excellency.
TIKEH NUNEH BA OB KHRELEH BEZORG VA KHRUBE GOYAST INO BERGERAM.= The water-soaked bread crumbs are delicious, thank you. I must have the recipe.
BA BODENEH SHEERELL TEEGZ.= Truly, I would rather be a hostage to your greatly esteemed self than to spend a fortnight upon the person of Cheryl Tiegs.
Soverytired
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I knew one guy who flew chartered heavy jets for the Haj, and he swore up and down the dirt-ignorant "gentlemen" in the back of the plane cleansed their feet by washing them in the aircraft lavatory.
How could he tell? BLUE FEET.
(To be fair, if I were in their culture, I'd probalby do something equally ignorant, like insist on equal treatment under the law for women or some such nonsense)
How could he tell? BLUE FEET.
(To be fair, if I were in their culture, I'd probalby do something equally ignorant, like insist on equal treatment under the law for women or some such nonsense)
Very well said.
Travel is one of the best forms of education you can get. It also really puts in perpective how ignorant some people who never leave the U.S. and think Fox news is the end all be all of information are.
By the way, there is a product called Curing. It's a herb you can get at a health food store and works great for slowing down any negative effects of upset digestive track problems.
414Flyer
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Those look Farsi, not Arabic.
DC10
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I have traveled to 72 countries, including every country in the Middle East with the exception of Yemen. I've never been robbed, mugged, threatened in any way or EVER felt in any danger.
The Middle East, along with the rest of the world is an extremely welcoming place for the average foreigner. Treat them with the same respect you'd expect and you can't go wrong. Take the same advice regardless of where you travel.
Travel is the best remedy for narrow-mindedness. Ignore what the mainstream US media, especially FOX News tells you about the rest of the world.
The Middle East, along with the rest of the world is an extremely welcoming place for the average foreigner. Treat them with the same respect you'd expect and you can't go wrong. Take the same advice regardless of where you travel.
Travel is the best remedy for narrow-mindedness. Ignore what the mainstream US media, especially FOX News tells you about the rest of the world.
PHXFLYR
USAir by default
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- Feb 5, 2003
- Posts
- 2,177
Same here. Spent 10 years flying in and out of there in my commuter days during the quonset hut terminal era. They sure were impressed with themselves. I am thoroughly convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt that they must spend their vacations in Hilton Head,SC (HHH) and have relatives in Orange County, CA (SNA) ;two other cities I've flown in and out of over the years where the clientel thinks the world revolves around them and the rest of us are nothing more than lowly pieons.
PHXFLYR
Yep-
White Plains does blow, but go and fly the Hajj ad get back to me about these people......
You have no idea what complete scumbags you are defending. Go and meet a few of them-go and see how they will stone a woman to death after she is raped for "having _ex outside marriage." Maybe you should acquiant yourself with these people before saying they are like everyone else. They simply are not wired right-basic assumptions we all make about good vs. bad are not part of their culture.
-Perhaps you folks think stoning women to death for being raped is a good idea... I do not.
White Plains does blow, but go and fly the Hajj ad get back to me about these people......
You have no idea what complete scumbags you are defending. Go and meet a few of them-go and see how they will stone a woman to death after she is raped for "having _ex outside marriage." Maybe you should acquiant yourself with these people before saying they are like everyone else. They simply are not wired right-basic assumptions we all make about good vs. bad are not part of their culture.
-Perhaps you folks think stoning women to death for being raped is a good idea... I do not.
There is a lot more misplaced arrogance in this country compared to some "foreign" countries I've been to. As is being well said here, the more time you spend on foreign soil the more you realize how much we all have in common despite our differences.
I find it interesting how much better informed many people outside of the U.S. are about world affairs compared to the average U.S. citizen.
I find it interesting how much better informed many people outside of the U.S. are about world affairs compared to the average U.S. citizen.
Yep and there are Americans that will drag a black man behind a pick up truck in Texas. But I've also met some really nice people from Texas.
There are good people and bad people in every country in the world.
CKJET
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- Dec 9, 2005
- Posts
- 137
I have done it twice... 97 and 98
The guys on the board have covered just about everything:
1. I have seen a fire lit for cooking. You have to rememer that some of these people may have never seen a car prior to this trip much less an airplane.
2. When ATC gets busy it something that you should tape record and post on this board when you get back. You may find that your English will worsen trying to understand what some of these guys are saying.
Good luck!
The guys on the board have covered just about everything:
1. I have seen a fire lit for cooking. You have to rememer that some of these people may have never seen a car prior to this trip much less an airplane.
2. When ATC gets busy it something that you should tape record and post on this board when you get back. You may find that your English will worsen trying to understand what some of these guys are saying.
Good luck!
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