whymeworry?
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2005
- Posts
- 701
As I wrote, it all depends on the circumstance.
I've got buddies at ANA Cargo. They bitch about the job just as much as the next pilot, but considering what else is out there I think they have a pretty good gig. One guy I speak with regularly is able to mostly work month-on, month off and commutes home Business Class confirmed. Not bad, especially since it's all tax-free. He still bitches.
Likewise, I've got buddies at CX. They too love it, but they also tell me they're sick of seeing ANC, LAX, and HKG (a majority of their destination on the 747 cargo fleet). That will change as they move up to the pax side of the operation. And they'll certainly become a WB captain before I ever do but again, for me, it's all about time off. I'll get more of it in the US. So, for me, the overseas options just aren't a consideration (yet).
Grass is always greener/ To each his own. At the end of the day, when deciding to go overseas vs. a Yankee job, it all comes down to the specific options one actually has. For me, I have no regrets turning down opportunities with CX/ EK/ QR (never actually interviewed at any of these carriers, but I had buddies who got me the interview back when hiring was brisk). This is a long career, perhaps I'll regret that viewpoint later in life. For now, however, my US major job is fine and I can do the overseas contract gig while out on leave, still keeping my seniority #.
The US aviation market is in the tank right now, no doubt. That will change. Things will get better again. If you can get enough time off, to be stateside, then a foreign gig is certainly worth the effort. If you can't get the time off for quality time with family back home where you're from, as is the case with a lot of Gulf carriers, then, to me, it's just not worth the trade off. Sure you get a faster upgrade, or even a DEC position. But after 90 days, when the honeymoon ends, it's all about quality of life.
Then there is the whole union thing. You can get fired from any of these jobs without cause. With respect to expat hiring/ firing, laws are rarely, if ever, followed and rights are... well, you have no rights. As long as you tow the company line you can stay out of the gun sights. But first time you screw up, your fate is in the hands of some mid-level exec who hasn't flown the line in ages. If there is a shortage of crews, you're probably safe. If, on the other hand, they need to lean out a few pilot bodies(as every carrier seems to be doing these days), nice knowing ya. As much as I loathe the under-handed politics of local union issues, I wouldn't have this job any other way. If my airline in the US wants to fire me, they have to follow a process that is vetted by expert union reps and labor attorneys. Yes, I can still lose my job, but at least I get a hearing and a chance to defend myself.
Then there is the whole work environment issue... the so-called Asian cockpits vs. US. I know, we yanks are too "laid back." Perhaps. But the Asian cockpits are too full of "make work" minutiae, while appealing to more autocratic captains (generally speaking of course, I know not all are like that). FOs in the US are treated as equals, for the most part, and as professional aviators. Not the same in Asia and the M.E.
Upgrading in the US is less about one's desire for an increase in rank and more about pay. At my airline we have 20-25 yr FOs who upgraded 10+ years ago but decided they would rather have a better schedule so they downgrade back to the right seat... still able to pull in $150,000/ yr (in the best case circumstances, and in gross earnings). Since the Captain is in a higher tax braket, the net earnings of senior FOs are closer that one might think.
Again, it's purely circumstantial
I've got buddies at ANA Cargo. They bitch about the job just as much as the next pilot, but considering what else is out there I think they have a pretty good gig. One guy I speak with regularly is able to mostly work month-on, month off and commutes home Business Class confirmed. Not bad, especially since it's all tax-free. He still bitches.
Likewise, I've got buddies at CX. They too love it, but they also tell me they're sick of seeing ANC, LAX, and HKG (a majority of their destination on the 747 cargo fleet). That will change as they move up to the pax side of the operation. And they'll certainly become a WB captain before I ever do but again, for me, it's all about time off. I'll get more of it in the US. So, for me, the overseas options just aren't a consideration (yet).
Grass is always greener/ To each his own. At the end of the day, when deciding to go overseas vs. a Yankee job, it all comes down to the specific options one actually has. For me, I have no regrets turning down opportunities with CX/ EK/ QR (never actually interviewed at any of these carriers, but I had buddies who got me the interview back when hiring was brisk). This is a long career, perhaps I'll regret that viewpoint later in life. For now, however, my US major job is fine and I can do the overseas contract gig while out on leave, still keeping my seniority #.
The US aviation market is in the tank right now, no doubt. That will change. Things will get better again. If you can get enough time off, to be stateside, then a foreign gig is certainly worth the effort. If you can't get the time off for quality time with family back home where you're from, as is the case with a lot of Gulf carriers, then, to me, it's just not worth the trade off. Sure you get a faster upgrade, or even a DEC position. But after 90 days, when the honeymoon ends, it's all about quality of life.
Then there is the whole union thing. You can get fired from any of these jobs without cause. With respect to expat hiring/ firing, laws are rarely, if ever, followed and rights are... well, you have no rights. As long as you tow the company line you can stay out of the gun sights. But first time you screw up, your fate is in the hands of some mid-level exec who hasn't flown the line in ages. If there is a shortage of crews, you're probably safe. If, on the other hand, they need to lean out a few pilot bodies(as every carrier seems to be doing these days), nice knowing ya. As much as I loathe the under-handed politics of local union issues, I wouldn't have this job any other way. If my airline in the US wants to fire me, they have to follow a process that is vetted by expert union reps and labor attorneys. Yes, I can still lose my job, but at least I get a hearing and a chance to defend myself.
Then there is the whole work environment issue... the so-called Asian cockpits vs. US. I know, we yanks are too "laid back." Perhaps. But the Asian cockpits are too full of "make work" minutiae, while appealing to more autocratic captains (generally speaking of course, I know not all are like that). FOs in the US are treated as equals, for the most part, and as professional aviators. Not the same in Asia and the M.E.
Upgrading in the US is less about one's desire for an increase in rank and more about pay. At my airline we have 20-25 yr FOs who upgraded 10+ years ago but decided they would rather have a better schedule so they downgrade back to the right seat... still able to pull in $150,000/ yr (in the best case circumstances, and in gross earnings). Since the Captain is in a higher tax braket, the net earnings of senior FOs are closer that one might think.
Again, it's purely circumstantial
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