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Flying overseas

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Fairview is right on the money, as usual. I know people who love the ex-pat life and wouldn't have it any other way. But I also know some who can't wait to leave. One of my friends here hates it, but his wife and kids think it's paradise, so you never know.

I love the long haul gig, and the people I work with are the best.
But I also like knowing that I have a place to go home to when the time is right.
 
This is a purely circumstantial subject.

It all depends on the airline you're flying for overseas vs. the airline you left in the states.

As a general rule of thumb, American pilots get way more time off. Again, this is just a generalization but the CBAs in American insure the pilot will receive plenty of time off. Contrast that with the ME and Asia, it's pretty much up to the pilot to wheel and deal his way into trip swaps in order to insure a modicum of time off.

And that's what it boils down to folks, time off.

I don't care how much you take home as a net paycheck (the main thrust of overseas gigs is the pay), if you don't get loads of time off to enjoy that pay you're just slaving away in this career.

I'm overseas at the moment on leave from my US airline. The net pay here is more than double, but I'm working myself to death. It's ok with me since I know it is only temporary. I'd hate to see my attitude if this was the finality of my career.

There are plenty of things to enjoy overseas, including assimilating into the local communtiy and broadening your cultural experiences. But home is home. No place is perfect, and the US is far from it. But, to me, she is still the best country on Earth.

One more thing: TIME OFF means blocks of time to do whatever you want to do. Even if you end up with time off in Doha, Dubai, HK, or Oman, you're still not HOME. Unless you can get the time to haul the whole family back to America, wash out the jet-lag, and enjoy your leisure time, you're not really getting QUALITY time off. In the US, when I'm off the world is pretty much my oyster. Here, when I'm off in base, the options are limited to deficit spending trips at the mall or a myriad of things I do to fill the time but aren't really considered "fun" to me.
 
Well, you can work for an overseas airline and still live in the great Red, White, and Blue. I live in San Diego and work about 10-13 days a month, and that doesn't include my 6 weeks paid vacation. That's some good times off. BTW my first jet was a 747-400 and my first base LAX.
I'm as proud of American as they come, but many US airlines just don't appeal to me. SWA, would be fine in some respects as well as FedEx and UPS, but I have NEVER looked at another aircraft's colors and thought, "I would rather be there."
 
And that's what it boils down to folks, time off.

I don't care how much you take home as a net paycheck


For you maybe but after the third time in line to ride the Majors merry-go-round I suddenly realized that at my age it wasn't worth spending 8 years as an F/O just to upgrade on reserve on the most junior A/C in the worst city of the system, that ship had sailed. Now working for my retirement and still living state side. Could I use a couple more days off? yes I could, but for the rest I'm very happy with both the company and the remuneration package. I'm not saying it is an option for everyone, It is just the right option for me
 
As I wrote, it all depends on the circumstance.

I've got buddies at ANA Cargo. They bitch about the job just as much as the next pilot, but considering what else is out there I think they have a pretty good gig. One guy I speak with regularly is able to mostly work month-on, month off and commutes home Business Class confirmed. Not bad, especially since it's all tax-free. He still bitches.

Likewise, I've got buddies at CX. They too love it, but they also tell me they're sick of seeing ANC, LAX, and HKG (a majority of their destination on the 747 cargo fleet). That will change as they move up to the pax side of the operation. And they'll certainly become a WB captain before I ever do but again, for me, it's all about time off. I'll get more of it in the US. So, for me, the overseas options just aren't a consideration (yet).

Grass is always greener/ To each his own. At the end of the day, when deciding to go overseas vs. a Yankee job, it all comes down to the specific options one actually has. For me, I have no regrets turning down opportunities with CX/ EK/ QR (never actually interviewed at any of these carriers, but I had buddies who got me the interview back when hiring was brisk). This is a long career, perhaps I'll regret that viewpoint later in life. For now, however, my US major job is fine and I can do the overseas contract gig while out on leave, still keeping my seniority #.

The US aviation market is in the tank right now, no doubt. That will change. Things will get better again. If you can get enough time off, to be stateside, then a foreign gig is certainly worth the effort. If you can't get the time off for quality time with family back home where you're from, as is the case with a lot of Gulf carriers, then, to me, it's just not worth the trade off. Sure you get a faster upgrade, or even a DEC position. But after 90 days, when the honeymoon ends, it's all about quality of life.

Then there is the whole union thing. You can get fired from any of these jobs without cause. With respect to expat hiring/ firing, laws are rarely, if ever, followed and rights are... well, you have no rights. As long as you tow the company line you can stay out of the gun sights. But first time you screw up, your fate is in the hands of some mid-level exec who hasn't flown the line in ages. If there is a shortage of crews, you're probably safe. If, on the other hand, they need to lean out a few pilot bodies(as every carrier seems to be doing these days), nice knowing ya. As much as I loathe the under-handed politics of local union issues, I wouldn't have this job any other way. If my airline in the US wants to fire me, they have to follow a process that is vetted by expert union reps and labor attorneys. Yes, I can still lose my job, but at least I get a hearing and a chance to defend myself.

Then there is the whole work environment issue... the so-called Asian cockpits vs. US. I know, we yanks are too "laid back." Perhaps. But the Asian cockpits are too full of "make work" minutiae, while appealing to more autocratic captains (generally speaking of course, I know not all are like that). FOs in the US are treated as equals, for the most part, and as professional aviators. Not the same in Asia and the M.E.

Upgrading in the US is less about one's desire for an increase in rank and more about pay. At my airline we have 20-25 yr FOs who upgraded 10+ years ago but decided they would rather have a better schedule so they downgrade back to the right seat... still able to pull in $150,000/ yr (in the best case circumstances, and in gross earnings). Since the Captain is in a higher tax braket, the net earnings of senior FOs are closer that one might think.

Again, it's purely circumstantial
 
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VAC is a fun gig, maybe not living in San Diego, but I really wouldn't want that. Life here is for a single person but there are some families that enjoy the area.

Is it the best job in the world, NO, the company is run like a 135 charter operation in the deep South, must be seen to be appreciated. Working out of the US is something that I can recommend to any US pilot, great experience, even if you only stay for a year.

I think most people enjoy keeping as much of their income as possible, here you can do just that, cable TV, 3 dollars a month, ADSL, 10 dollars, hotel room on the beach, 10 dollars and up.

Maybe not the gig for everyone, I like the fact that it's not like any other place you've been, no Burger Kings on every corner, no speed cameras, it's like living in the wild wild west, company pays the taxes here, so all income goes in the bank. This may be a socialist republic here but I enjoy more freedom here than in California. You must be current and qualified, B777, A330, A320, ATR-72.
 
Hi!

I know some guys at Cathay. One guy said it was about the worst job he ever had, and mentioned two other US airlines that he said were MUCH better. Same for Emirates.

I have read a LOT about a whole bunch of foreign airlines, and there are a LOT of guys saying how bad it is on the net, and some guys saying it is great.

IT DEPENDS!!!

It mostly depends on how adaptable you are. If you really want a US job working for a US company, don't leave for something "better".

I was open-minded, and am liking my job and living here better than I thought I would. On the other hand, there have basically been 7 guys from outside Africa brought in for my company, and I am the ONLY guy that is still here.

cliff
NBO
 
Thanks for all the answers guys. I really appreciate it. I am going to apply to the ones that are hiring and if I get called I'll go to the interview and then decide on what to do. I guess there's no need to worry about it before I get a job offer.

VF
 
Thanks for all the answers guys. I really appreciate it. I am going to apply to the ones that are hiring and if I get called I'll go to the interview and then decide on what to do. I guess there's no need to worry about it before I get a job offer.

VF

Good move. With Cathay you can ask to spend a few extra days after or before the interview (Just pay the extra hotel days at the airline rate, they will change the ticket) and truly see if you like the area and the company. Make up your mind then.
 
I'll chime in from the corporate pilot side.

I work 2 months on/1 month off. I go back to the US for my month off. I could go spend a month on the Adriatic coast of Croatia for my month off, or go back to the US. Purely up to me.

It's interesting what an eye-opener this job is. Let's see... in the relatively short time since we took delivery of my plane, I've seen North America, Europe, Africa, Middle East (of course), Far East (China/Taiwan/Japan), Malaysia.

It's not without its downsides either, like every other place. It's really what you make of it. One thing is for sure - this is probably the best flying I've done in my career.

You know the ol' saying - mind is like a parachute; works best when it's open. Those are the words to live by if you're living/working overseas. Some things will seem very strange or even offensive to your values as an American, but remember, you're a guest. For example, I'm based out of the UAE and it's Ramadan now. For us, it means no food or drink (even water) in public between sunrise/sunset. Does it suck for a Westerner? Absolutely. Again, keeping an open mind and being able to adapt are keys to surviving working overseas.

I will also echo the poster who suggested surrounding yourself with people who aren't necessarily your coworkers. You will find that individual misery tends to spread like a wildfire if all you're doing is talking about the company and don't take time to have fun and enjoy other things in life.

All in all, it's a great experience.
 
Ramadan is not even that bad. I have no idea why all the expats are all freaking out about it. No eating and drinking in public absolutely, but as soon as the sun goes down eat all you want. During the day all the grocery shops are open and you can shop till you drop and they also sell hot food. (eg in UAE Lulus and Carrefour). Duty free is open 24hrs a day with no restrictions on buying booz. (again UAE).
Aircraft catering and crew meals remain the same. Eat and drink all you want during the day or night - no limit.
 
No, it's not that bad at all. The downside is that you can't go out and eat during the day - restaurants are either closed or you can only get it to go. But to some people, it SUCKS! My take... it's just different. Like I said... gotta keep an open mind.
 
Hi!

I was sitting at the gate, between Qatar and AirArabia, thinking either one would be nice(r). My current position, today, was good. But next week? I have NO idea! Not so nice!

cliff
NBO
 
You can find some sit down restaurants that are open during the day during Ramadan. They just have all their windows either blackened out or all the curtains drawn so you can't see in or out. It's not that bad. The only thing that sucks is when the kiddies are with me driving past BK and they want a snack. But, that's what the cooler in the car is for. Besides, healthier that way for the kiddies.
 

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