FlyI Files Ch. 11 BK

[radarlove]

I know, you were born breached and fell on your head, and then you were breast fed till you were 23. Tell your wife or girlfriend to burp you and put you to bed.

imp: :nuts:

Translated: "I hate being pointed out an idiot, so I'll throw a tantrum rather than admit that I lecture on a lot of subjects on which I am unfamiliar."

Next up comes the, "I'm sick of arguing about this, I'm not going to reply anymore" answer.

Let me know if you need any links to bankruptcy law, I assume you are not familiar enough with search engines to be able to find them on your own.

"Classic Chapter 11 liquidation", you are funny, funny. Ok, actually you are stupid, stupid, but pretty much everyone here has figured that out already.

 

[lowecur]

Oh yeah, lowcur, how exactly does "continue its operations" equal "liquidation"?

I'm not arguing that they won't eventuall convert to Chapter 7, but there is no such thing as "Chapter 11 liquidation".

Bedtime story:

Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus.....Chapt 7 does exist. But you also have to understand as the legal community does that you can use Chapt 11 reorganization to sell your assets and linger awhile longer........this is known as a "Chapt 11 liquidation." It will never appear in the court documents as a liquidation, but rest assured the term and practice is well known throughout the Bankruptcy Legal Community. Don't believe me????????....Type in a Google Search for Chapt 11 liquidation and read some of the articles.

By the way, Kerry Skeen is just biding his time hoping that a sugardaddy will come out of the woodwork. My guess is the airline industry will just let Flyi die a natural death rather than prolong the agony any further through the purchase of the existing assets in the next couple of months.

Are you asleep yet?

 

[Crucianpilot]

Ty, General Lee's post said Leonard was talking about Indy air's pricing being irresponsible, not Airtran's pricing.

 

[lowecur]

Translated: "I hate being pointed out an idiot, so I'll throw a tantrum rather than admit that I lecture on a lot of subjects on which I am unfamiliar." Tantrums are good for stress.

Next up comes the, "I'm sick of arguing about this, I'm not going to reply anymore" answer. "Im sick of arguing about this, I'm not going to reply anymore.

Let me know if you need any links to bankruptcy law, OK. I assume you are not familiar enough with search engines to be able to find them on your own. Tell me about search engines as I need a new one. Do you know where I can get a good deal on spark plugs?

"Classic Chapter 11 liquidation", you are funny, funny. Actually, I'm a scream. Ok, actually you are stupid, stupid, Ooooooo, you are such a vicious person but pretty much everyone here has figured that out already.

......

 

[Traderd]

Oh yeah, lowcur, how exactly does "continue its operations" equal "liquidation"?

I'm not arguing that they won't eventuall convert to Chapter 7, but there is no such thing as "Chapter 11 liquidation".

Perhaps you should notify the Washington State Bar about this fact - it appears one of their own is taking credit for participation in a couple of them as noted here:


http://www.prestongates.com/people/profile.asp?id=105

Marc L. BarrecaPartner
Finance, Insolvency and Real Estate, Energy and Utilities, Global Telecom and Media


Representation of T & W Financial Services in its Chapter 11 liquidation
Representation of Jay Jacobs, Inc. in its Chapter 11 liquidation
Representation of Garden Botanika, Inc. in its Chapter 11 liquidation

as differentiated from the chapter 11 reorganization:


Representation of VECTRA Technologies, Inc., a nuclear technology contractor, in its Chapter 11 reorganization
Representation of Engle Farms dairy in its Chapter 11 reorganization
Representation of WinterBrook Corporation in its Chapter 11 reorganization

Semantics? I don't know. But I see his credentials and I'm guessing he would have a good idea on the proper wording in a listing of his "representative cases." I would hate to think he is claiming participation in an event that doesn't exist.

Perhaps you can contact his firm at the address or numbers provided and inform them of this discrepancy.

 

[SWPA Pilot]

So when will the last FlyI flight take place?

 

[radarlove]

Perhaps you should notify the Washington State Bar about this fact

Um, ok. Let's take an attorny's marketing material and argue it as the law of the land. Not.

Ya can't file Ch.11 to liquidate, per the meaning of the term "liquidate". They're two seprate animals. You can unwind and preserve value by selling whole chunks (or the whole), but that is not "liquidation".

Arguing semantics with pilots gets to be a bit of a chore, but the fact that some lawyer used a shorthand term the a layman might understand does not change the fundamental difference between Ch. 7 and Ch. 11. There really is a difference--it involves involving a trustee to "liquidate", or allowing the debtor to remain in possesion (as in "DIP") to preserve as much value as possible.

A company files Ch.11 to AVOID FORCED LIQUIDATION, or that liquidation that would be brought on by creditors wanting their money now. That's why it's called "bankruptcy protection", because under Ch. 11 you are protected from creditors seizing assets (except, notably, aircraft, train cars and a couple of other exceptions).

Do I think that Flyi will eventually shut down and the parts sold off? Yep.

But there is a fundamental difference between how the two Chapters of the law work and it gives the folks who work at Flyi a disservice to make pronouncements that are incorrect.

Here's my prediction: the auction process will not work, the creditors will file a petition for a Trustee to be appointed and to have the case converted to Ch. 7 and liquidation will commence.

The auction process, at least according to the press release, is currently designed to preserve value by keeping the company operating. That, again, is a fundamental difference from "liquidation".

Oh yeah, lowcur is still an idiot.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty, General Lee's post said Leonard was talking about Indy air's pricing being irresponsible, not Airtran's pricing.

Uh, that's a big 10-4 there, Rubber Duck, but there was an implication inherent in his statement that I guess you missed.

The part I was responding to was the General's assertion that "even Joe Leonard called the pricing irresponsible".

Which would be like saying, "Even Bozo thought Chuck Yogurt was a clown" or "Even Homer Simpson found him cartoonish".

 

[General Lee]

General, our pricing at AirTran is "responsible" pricing, because we make money at our prices.

One could certainly say that Delta's pricing has been irresponsible, since they were selling seats at prices below the cost of flying those seats.

Well, ok, then. What? It is tough to do that when you don't have the pricing power anymore in ATL. We are in the middle of major pay cuts---so I guess you are happy we are getting our costs in line to fight you guys? After we go lower than you, maybe your company will force you to do the same, right? That would be great TY!!!! I can't wait to see that.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Patriot328]

For Indy's pricing being irresponsible, yeah well it was. Go take a look at what Valutran's initial fares were like out of ATL (to IAD no less) and see how irresponsible those were as well.

*drumroll* $29.....

EDIT: OOPS I could only find a $51 fare (some $35 for students as well)

http://web.archive.org/web/19970213064332/www.valujet.com/atlf.html


And let us not forget WN's $19 fun fares back in the 80s.. even counting inflation, those were pretty freakin low.

Problem wasn't the low fares per se, but the inability to build up a customer base that would tolerate higher prices. Boyd was right, a lot of the growth in traffic that will disappear when ultra low fares disappear as well.

Those fare sales weren't really the problem. It's the capacity of the system that will not allow a fare increase to stick and still have the loads to make a profit.