Flowthru alive at LCC?

[NCFlyer]

On a side note everyone assumes that the PDT MEC is responsible for not allowing the the MDA pilots to return. Has anyone considered this scenario:

The intention of the flow was bi-lateral, however the flow back language was never finalized and not agreed to by all parties, including PDT management. That is fact. When MDA was furloughing PDT was not short on pilots and the flow back would have increased PDT's operating cost (training + more senior pilot group). Since PDT management was not yet contractually obligated to allow a flow back, they didn't.

This is a point that has been pointed out time and time again, however many just won't see it.

I personally brought up the flow-back on at least 5 different occasions, including during an open session MEC meeting. The company would take them back was at the bottom of the seniority list. The LOA that stated something about the return of WO pilots, simply stated that WO pilots, if furloughed from MDA would be allowed to return to their respective carrier. It stated no conditions about their return. PDT would have taken the pilots back at the bottom of the list. That would have been technically in compliance with the LOA but completely unfair. I believe that more could have been done to help any pilot who wanted to return to PDT. Those were our co-workers and we left them with no help in a time that they needed it most. Both the PDT MEC & PDT management should be ashamed of how the pilots were treated.

I have stated over and over again, any ALG/PDT pilot that had flowed up to MDA should have been allowed to flow back to PDT under the same conditions that he/she left with 1 additional requirement, that pilot must have been furloughed from MDA. You couldn't be allowed to return just because you changed your mind about MDA.

Same conditions meaning:
1. Posted available openings - no forcing anyone to the street.
2. Ex ALG/PDT, now furloughed MDA pilots bid for any openings. Mainline APL pilots need not apply.
3. Awards are made according to seniority - current pilots & furloughed ALG/PDT pilots.

You can be certain that some of the pilots didn't want the MDA pilots to return, but what one wants and what is right may be 2 separate things. There were/are many pilots still here that believed the right thing to do would have been to let the ALG/PDT pilots to bid for their return.

Remember those pilots that left ALG/PDT didn't "quit", they were just exercising a clause of our contract.

Also on a side note, as far as I can tell there was/is no provision for any former ALG/PDT pilot to J4J captain seats at PSA. I don't blame any of the PSA pilots for being upset about that.

 

[ponder]

I don't buy into the idea that PDT management kept the former
CEL pilots from flowing back. It was your MEC. And your MEC
was looking out for your best interest, at the expense of their
former coworkers.

 

[NCFlyer]

You are entitled to believe what you want to believe. As a former LEC officer I was involved in many discussions about the issue, some private, some on conference calls, others in open sessions. I can only tell you what I know to have taken place.

Were different things told to others? Possibly.

Were some people trying to promote their own personal agenda? Possibly.

I can not comment on the discussions others may have had.

Were some on the MEC against the flow-back? Yes.

But others were in favor of it. However as I stated in my previous post, PDT management would only entertain the idea of a flow-back to the bottom of the seniority list, not to their previous seniority.

 

[trainer8]

You are entitled to believe what you want to believe. As a former LEC officer I was involved in many discussions about the issue, some private, some on conference calls, others in open sessions. I can only tell you what I know to have taken place.

Were different things told to others? Possibly.

Were some people trying to promote their own personal agenda? Possibly.

I can not comment on the discussions others may have had.

Were some on the MEC against the flow-back? Yes.

But others were in favor of it. However as I stated in my previous post, PDT management would only entertain the idea of a flow-back to the bottom of the seniority list, not to their previous seniority.

What about the August 2005 Flow back proposal the PDT MEC authored? I have a copy. Are you unaware of that?

 

[LearLove]

What about the August 2005 Flow back proposal the PDT MEC authored? I have a copy. Are you unaware of that?

the burning bush.....

and to lighten things up around here:


http://howtoprankatelemarketer.ytmnd.com/

 

[NCFlyer]

What about the August 2005 Flow back proposal the PDT MEC authored? I have a copy. Are you unaware of that?

I'm not sure what proposal you are referring to.

There were many "proposals" going back & forth. Some were for internal use only, others for distribution. I am saying that I don't know of any official MEC proposal that denied any ALG/PDT pilot the right to return to PDT.


If there is I stand to be corrected.

 

[NCFlyer]

and to lighten things up around here:


http://howtoprankatelemarketer.ytmnd.com/

Absolutely hilarious!

 

[trainer8]

I'm not sure what proposal you are referring to.

This would be the 8/26/2005 Flow Through Proposal by the "PDT and PSA MECs." Here is the opening header:

LETTER OF AGREEMENT

Between and among
US AIRWAYS, INC.
and the
AIR LINE PILOTS
in the service of
US AIRWAYS, INC.,
as represented by
THE AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL​

AND​

PIEDMONT AIRLINES, INC.,
PSA AIRLINES, INC.
and the
AIR LINE PILOTS
in the service of
PIEDMONT AIRLINES, INC.,
PSA AIRLINES, INC.
as represented by
THE AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL​

​

FLOW-THROUGH

US AIRWAYS GROUP PILOT EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES
AND FURLOUGH PROTECTION

There were many "proposals" going back & forth. Some were for internal use only, others for distribution. I am saying that I don't know of any official MEC proposal that denied any ALG/PDT pilot the right to return to PDT.

The above mentioned proposal allowed for a Flow back to the respective PWOs. I don't know if it was ever presented to the AAA NC.

T8

 

[NCFlyer]

Sorry I'm not quite sure what you are referring to. Is the above proposal by the PDT MEC to AAA or the other way around and was it officially sent or received?

I ask that because you may remember that the original J4J proposal included the provision that mainline APL pilots were to have all the RJ seats, both C/A & F/O. Only those seats that went unfilled by APL pilots were to be open for bid by the regional carrier's pilots. Of course that proposal was sent back without any consideration and was eventually settled on the 50/50 arrangement.

Also I don't know if I have read the proposal or not, since I'm not sure which 1 it is. Does it in some how restrict ALG/PDT pilots from returning to PDT?

I do know that as recently as the fall of 2006 discussions were still under way as to how the former ALG/PDT pilots could be returned to PDT. Again I was told that the management didn't want to discuss their return if it included their return with seniority. True or false????? But that is what I was told.

Since I no longer serve in any capacity with PDT ALPA all I know comes from public information or with discussions with my reps.