Flowback vs. Jets for Jobs

[furloughfodder]

Do the math.

AA furloughed pilots------------3300
AE pilots ----------------------2500

What do you want to do with those poor AE pilots with 6 to 18 years of seniority?

If my math is correct that would leave only 800 AA Furloughed pilots.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Only around 20% of the furloughees are flowing back any way...

261 airplanes for 2500 pilots = 9.5 crews per airplane
AE stopped getting jets this year and the SF340 fleet is going away faster than we expected.
But the point is AE can not take all the furloughed AA pilots.

Your point seemed more of a complaint against the furloughees hurting the careers of 6-18 year AE pilots.

My point is AE has grown faster than any other regional in the world over the past few years. The sky isn't falling just because there is a temporary stop in the A/C deliveries. And there is only a minority of the AA/TWA pilots flowing back. Yes, there won't be room at AE for all the flushbacks, not all were even offered the opportunity. Most likely AE will start hiring the beginning of next year if not sooner.

The 261 planes number was much less a few years back. You didn't address that, and that was my point. Currently there are no AE pilots on furlough and AA continues to let the mainline pilots go (AA - 2000 hires, TWA 1988 hires).

I know, I know, you had career expectations and had hoped to get laid.

My advise: make the best of it and enjoy it when you get it!

Jeff

PS: I have helped a couple of AE guys come over to AAY to fly the MD80. So be professional with the furlough-types. It's all about Karma!

 

[MED]

Your point seemed more of a complaint against the furloughees hurting the careers of 6-18 year AE pilots.

My point is AE has grown faster than any other regional in the world over the past few years. The sky isn't falling just because there is a temporary stop in the A/C deliveries. And there is only a minority of the AA/TWA pilots flowing back. Yes, there won't be room at AE for all the flushbacks, not all were even offered the opportunity. Most likely AE will start hiring the beginning of next year if not sooner.

The 261 planes number was much less a few years back. You didn't address that, and that was my point. Currently there are no AE pilots on furlough and AA continues to let the mainline pilots go (AA - 2000 hires, TWA 1988 hires).

I know, I know, you had career expectations and had hoped to get laid.

My advise: make the best of it and enjoy it when you get it!

Jeff

PS: I have helped a couple of AE guys come over to AAY to fly the MD80. So be professional with the furlough-types. It's all about Karma!

You still missing the point, I'm not complaining at all I was just answering this question by the author

"What is the difference in these agreements, and why doesn't AA allow all of their furloughed guys to fly as Captain at Eagle?"

I don't freakin care about this flow back/flow thru agreement I'm on my way out myself, I'm not spending my career with this stupid airline.

P.S.
if you're not a hot chick, stop sending me a PM.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

And you still wonder why you didn't get a date to the prom?!

P.S.
if you're not a hot chick, stop sending me a PM.

Your parents Malibu station wagon with the fake wood graining siding didn't help much, either!

 

[jetexas]

"What is the difference in these agreements, and why doesn't AA allow all of their furloughed guys to fly as Captain at Eagle?"

The flowthrough/flowback (letter 3, it's called) was written over a weekend. It's a very sloppy agreement and has not met either sides expectations.

Anyway. Eagle RJ captains were given a choice to go "Eagle Rights" or "flowthrough". If you chose "Eagle Rights" that meant your captain seat is protected and you cannot be displaced out of it by "flowbacks". You also did not get an AA seniority number.
If you chose flowthrough then 2 years after completing IOE as an RJ captain you were eligible to go to AA, if they were hiring. You went in as a two year AA pilot.

124 Eagle pilots were eligible (had the 2 years as RJ captain) and flowed
through to AA prior to 9/11.

The number of AA furloughes alloted back to Eagle in the event of furlough was predicated on the amount of Eagle pilots that chose flowthrough (ie..NOT Eagle Rights). We had something like 604 RJ Captains with AA numbers that chose to flowthrough.That is the amount of AA pilots allowed to come back per agreement. No matter that only 124 AE actually made it to AA. The number alloted to "flowback" is the number that chose "flowthrough".

It was not a "cattle call" in either direction. There are limits.

The agreement was modeled after the COex/CAL agreement. Theirs worked. Ours did not (at least for Eagle pilots)

 

[aa73]

The agreement was modeled after the COex/CAL agreement. Theirs worked. Ours did not (at least for Eagle pilots)

Jetexas,

Any idea what made CAL's agreement work and why didn't Eagle's work the same way?

In other words, why did only 124 Eagle pilots make it through, and not more. Was it the age thing? Just curious.

Thanks,
73

 

[beagle pilot]

What is the difference in these agreements, and why doesn't AA allow all of their furloughed guys to fly as Captain at Eagle?

Just like Collective Bargaining Agreements, no two J4J or Flowback agreements are alike. I'm a Beagle pilot. Our flow through didn't work near as well as the one with CAL and Express. It sucked, but the flowback isn't working as well as the Arrogant A$$holes had hoped either. Less than 400 will flowback out of the 3000 on the street. The reasons are too numerous to list. Suffice to say it is in the actual details of each agreement.

 

[jetexas]

Any idea what made CAL's agreement work and why didn't Eagle's work the same way?

I think it just has to do with timing. Coex got RJ's a few years earlier than Eagle did. In fact, they were well on the way to being all jet before Eagle even had an RJ on property. They had a lot more RJ captains eligible to flowthrough when the CAL hiring boom started. By the time Eagle had generated enough RJ captains to flowthrough, AA was already starting to wind down hiring and then 9/11 happened.

 

[aa73]

Thanks, that makes sense.

Any idea on whether the flowthrough will be extended in the next contract? My impression is that most Eagle folks don't want anything to do with coming over to AA given the latest picture - not that I blame them.

73