Flopsions Management....Corupt Third World Mentality

[B19 Flyer]

Moron were not 121, none of us really care about 121. We fly the people that own the airline you work for!!
....

First of all.. you DON'T Fly the people that own the airline I work for. I know that for a fact. As a matter of fact, if it wasn't for airlines like mine, fracs could't exist to reposition crews, so before you go beating up on 121, think about what you are writing.

Second, we knew about the changes in 121 because in 121, we make it a habit to stay ahead of the curve. We don't do things reactionary.

But.... PRIA is a DOT rule!! (That's Department of Transportation for those of you that don't understand) which means that if you are certificated Part 119 carrier, which all fracs are because they hold "M" specs, then you had to know about the changes.

Nothing about the changes to PRIA are bad, they are all good.

So, SS entire post was about a DOT process that he doesn't understand or know about. If he did, he wouldn't have gone on ranting and raving about it. He should thank "Bob" for giving a heads up on the changes. His union sure as hell didn't do it.

 

[B19 Flyer]

A union is the membership and in this industry, the membership is pilots. In very direct way you just stated that unionized pilots are "the scum of the earth". You have no basis for such an outlandish, broad brushed, hate filled, grudge laden comments. You have absolutely no clue what IBT1108 offers - you are not there and therefore cannot speak in an educated capacity on anything that is IBT1108. I will tell you it is far more than just the contract. IBT1108 did not leverage anyone at anytime to get the 2007 CBA. It was agreed between NJA and IBT1108 of both parties free will. Either could have walked at anytime and waited for 2010.

Since you are so smart about Unions and what they do, why don't you speak about the role of Section 17 in the IBT1108/NJA 2007 CBA? Ever heard of LRMP, NOCODE, SOD, Joint Committees? How about Section 18 of the IBT1108/NJA 2007 CBA? Can you speak to that? I think not so all your antiquated, "I was wronged in the old days", uninformed writing is nothing more than vitriolic chicken scratch.

You are right, I don't know about the specific CBA, nor do I need to or want to. (I'm now in a non-union airline, remember?)

But, if it walks like a duck, flies like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

There is no way you are going to convince any of us that have been repeatedly screwed over by unions that an "industry leading contract" is going to work and help the industry. It will hurt more than it will help. Why?

It's the union way.

www.unionfacts.com

 

[Hobbes]

But, if it walks like a duck, flies like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

Yep, you are right....duck.

 

[jetwash]

I've got no stake in the union thing at FLOPS with the exception of enjoying the debate.

You must have a really pathetic life !!!!:laugh:

 

[mxpilot2]

As a former (short-term) Options pilot, I've been keeping casual track of this conflict. I can't believe how contentious it has become, and feel for the pilot group. It seems like it has taken a HUGE downturn from when I was there. I have to wonder if anyone I knew then is still there, and how they have managed to stick it out. We had alot of good people when I was there.

At one time, I would have thought that unions had outlived their usefulness. I had read the info saying how unions had driven companies out of business with ridiculous demands, etc. I (not knowing the details) wondered why NJ would need a union. That said- I think that if I were still at Options, I'd have to be on the side of a union. I don't know what all I would have lost that I had when I started, but what I've read here seems to indicate that what's been lost is enough.

It appears to me that B19 and to some extent, VOR, are serving only to induce doubt about the need and/or usefulness of a union. Muddy the waters, scare the "fence-sitters" back into the side of inaction, and keep things status-quo.

I'm currently flying a Part 91 job, and it isn't all roses either. Yes, I have good pay, benefits, retirement, etc. But I am taken care of as a professional pilot should be. Not only by my estimation, but that of my profession. Those who worked hard, and paid dues ahead of me to make it as it is now. I paid mine, and those who follow me will gain those rewards. And now, the fracs are due the same. NJ has shown how it can be done, and as a longtime survivor in that biz, should continue to do so for a long time to come.

When I started at Options, it was a 35% increase over my corporate job. It was similarly higher than NJ at the time, and well over Flex. Now NJ is higher than my corporate job, and Options pilots are being held in empathy. Times change, not always for the better, but in this case, I hope it works out for those who stick it out with Options.

Regards,
Chris

 

[CaveoFalco]

You are right, I don't know about the specific CBA, nor do I need to or want to. (I'm now in a non-union airline, remember?)

But, if it walks like a duck, flies like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

There is no way you are going to convince any of us that have been repeatedly screwed over by unions that an "industry leading contract" is going to work and help the industry. It will hurt more than it will help. Why?

It's the union way.

www.unionfacts.com

To quote myself, you are incapable of any educated and articulate discussion on the issue. The sum total of your academic debate is a trite phrase and posting a F and H link. Nice. I don't care if you are a union pilot or not - that is your choice for which you get to bear the end result. It makes no difference to me.

NJA and IBT1108 work jointly to solve problems and resolve issues. Mr. Santulli is happy to have IBT1108. It has contributed as much to the success of the Company as management has. Watch his video - he will tell you. I know you won't. That would be academic research and education. That does not fit you well.

 

[realityman]

B19, interesting that you finally responded to one of my posts.

However, the fact that you obviously know nothing about our CBA, our cooperative efforts with the company, or any pertinent details whatsoever about anything to do with our program means that anything you have to say on the subjetc has NO CREDIBILITY whatsoever.

As an example, suppose I flew on a certain airline and had a really bad experience. And then later flew on another airline and had another really bad experience. Would I be correct to go around telling people that ALL airlines are pure crap? And if I could point to airlines in the past that were crap, would that still make my statement that ALL airlines are crap true?

Well, that's what you're doing with 1108. You've had some bad experiences with unions. You can point to some bad things unions have done in the past. Ans so feel justified making the statement that ALL unions are bad and harmful. You even state that you don't need to knwo anything about our CBA, just that the very fact that it came about from a union makes it, and us, bad.

Sorry, but that's pretty faulty logic. You've been urging everyone to get educated on unions with that link you have to the anti-union site. Why don't you take a few minutes and get yourself educated on what 1108 has done for the pilots, AND THE COMPANY, before you cut us down just because we're a union.

By the way, just curious since you brought up Eastern Airlines earlier. Suppose the unions had caved quickly and taken all the cuts and concessions management wanted. Do you think they'd have made it and would still be in business? Unless I'm mistaken, that airline was in serious financial straights long before the unions got stubborn. That smacks of poor management and/or a poor business model. Not greedy unions dragging things down.

 

[fischman]

... Would I be correct to go around telling people that ALL airlines are pure crap?

Actually, I think you might be correct.