Flops

[XShipRider]

Retracted - script disabled really made the page look pale.

Operator error.

 

[hammer2]

This plain sick!

 

[jetwash]

I was told that there were about 45 pilots that got Fed Ex letters telling them that they have until the 20th of January to get a CanPass or show that they are in the process of getting one. Many have already been denied and will probably be let go on the 20th.

According to Can Pass everyone on the aircraft has to have a Can Pass permit in their hands to be able to use the service. Since there are only about 5 or 6 out of 2000 owners who have one the majority have been entering Canada on the pilots permits which is a NO NO.

I for one will be calling Can Pass after the pax arrive to let them know that my pax don't have a CanPass permit and that I as the pilot cannot guarantee
that they don't have a criminal background which will make them inadmissable to Canada. This way I leave it up to the Canadians to decide to let my pax use the Canpass or go to a customs airport.

This is the only way I can protect my Can Pass permit and my job.

 

[400pilot]

Jetwash,

It doesn't work that way. The people at Canpass know whether or not the pax have a Canpass Permit. When the PIC calls to set up Canada entry, Canpass just asks for names of crew and pax. They then pull the names on their computer and act accordingly depending on who has a Canpass permit. They have never asked me for a permit number from either crew or pax. If the pax names were given, there is no way that they arrived using a crew's permit.

 

[clickclickboom]

Canpass

The non canpass guys at flops go back quite some time.. I remember 5 or 6 years ago flying with FO's that could not get a canpass. It would usually happen someething like this: PBI TEB w pax.. get into Teb blackberry starts ringing with a recovery trip to some airport/fishing camp 100 miles north of montreal.. Fo then tells me he cant go directly there because of ______ . The call goes into Ops and they either give you stby or build a quickturn at Toronto or Montreal

1 was for a dui the other was for a charge involving a bar fight where some random guy attacked this guys girlfriend and the pilot basically put him in a coma for 2 weeks.

I know I have posted here in the past and the die hard union guys have acccused me of being management for spreading what they call fud regarding the demise of flops but remember guys and gals you have to plan to the worst and hope for the best dont sit back and pass up possible opportunities that may come your way because of a chance at a contract like NJA.. NJA is a completely different animal.

 

[greygoose]

According to Can Pass everyone on the aircraft has to have a Can Pass permit in their hands to be able to use the service.

CANPASS - Corporate Aircraft: Telephone Reporting

The CANPASS Corporate - Aircraft program makes clearing customs easier for business travellers flying to Canada from the United States on corporate aircraft.
Does your company own or operate a corporate aircraft that frequently flies to Canada directly from the United States? If so, the CANPASS - Corporate Aircraft program may be for you. This program allows you to access more airports and provides expedited clearances for low-risk, pre-screened travellers. The corporation can register employees and other individuals who are integral to its business operations. CANPASS corporate flights can land at any airport of entry (AOE) or CANPASS-only airport in Canada, at any time the facility is open for business.
How does it work?
The pilot must report the estimated time of arrival (ETA) by calling 1-888-CANPASS (1-888-226-7277) at least two hours, but no more than 48 hours, before flying into Canada. If the 1-888 service is not available, the pilot must call a telephone reporting centre (TRC). Long-distance charges will apply. The telephone numbers for the TRCs are as follows:
Lansdowne: (613) 659-4576
Hamilton: (905) 679-2073
Windsor: (519) 967-4320
Victoria: (250) 363-0222
The pilot has to provide the TRC with the following information:

• ETA;
• aircraft licence or registration number;
• destination in Canada;
• the full name, date of birth, and citizenship of all persons on board;
• purpose of the trip and length of stay in Canada for non-residents;
• length of absence from Canada for Canadian residents;
• a declaration for each person aboard (provided by either the pilot or the individual); and
• updates to the original ETA if changes are greater than 30 minutes or if any other information has changed.

All travellers aboard must declare any personal goods they are importing, including firearms and weapons, and report currency and monetary instruments of a value equal to or greater than CAN$10,000. For more information, see Cross Border Currency Reporting. If duties or taxes are payable, the TRC officer will also get the traveller's mailing address and VISA or MasterCard number and expiry date.
Authorization holders can land at an AOE any time the site is open, regardless of the hours of business of the local customs office. In addition, they can use one of the designated CANPASS-only airports.
If a customs officer is not waiting to meet the aircraft when it arrives at the reported ETA or actual time of arrival (whichever is later), the pilot can proceed to the final destination.
CANPASS - Corporate Aircraft authorization holders can transport up to four persons who do not have an authorization but are travelling on a corporate aircraft for a business-related need of the company. To qualify, at least one authorization holder must be among the passengers and those who are not authorized must be either Canadian or U.S. citizens or permanent residents, or resident aliens of the U.S. who meet the normal requirements for entry into Canada and would otherwise qualify for CANPASS membership. The corporation will be charged $25 per individual each time a temporary authorization is issued. This fee applies regardless of the AOE or whether a customs officer is present. If there are more than four non-authorization holders aboard, you cannot make use of the CANPASS program. You will have to follow the procedures outlined under Telephone Reporting - General Aviation Aircraft.

 

[greygoose]

This may be a little more understandable, this is taken directly from the Corporate Aircraft brochure.

"As a CANPASS - Corporate Aircraft program member, you can transport up to four non-paying passengers who are not registered members of the program but can still enjoy all the CANPASS program benefits. These travellers are eligible to receive a temporary authorization to accompany you on any single passage at a cost of CAN$25 per entry to Canada."

 

[dash_trash]

CANPASS - Private Aircraft

Actually, "corporate" CANPASS will not apply to the FLOPS pilots, as we all have "Private Aircraft" CANPASS authorization. The company put this into place when we were still running everything 91 and to my knowledge, everyone has the Private Aircraft authorization. A whole different set of rules. This means EVERY PERSON on board must have their CANPASS authorization in hand to utilize this procedure.



From the Private Aircraft CANPASS Brochure

[FONT=CenturyGothic,Bold]What are the benefits of the[/FONT]
[FONT=CenturyGothic,Bold]CANPASS – Private Aircraft program?[/FONT]​

CANPASS – Private Aircraft program members
can land at an airport of entry [FONT=BookAntiqua,Bold]whenever [/FONT]that
facility is open for business, regardless of the hours
of business of the local customs office. In addition,
members may choose to use one of the designated​

[FONT=BookAntiqua,Bold]CANPASS only [/FONT]

airports. A list of these airports is​

available on our Web site at [FONT=BookAntiqua,Bold]www.ccra.gc.ca[/FONT].​

[FONT=BookAntiqua,Bold]Notes[/FONT]

When using your CANPASS privileges, the
aircraft cannot be carrying more than 15 people
including members of the crew.​

You [FONT=BookAntiqua,Bold]cannot [/FONT]charge your passengers a fee for a
passage when using CANPASS privileges.​

[FONT=CenturyGothic,Bold]What are your responsibilities?[/FONT]
As a CANPASS – Private Aircraft program
member, whether you are the person in charge of
the aircraft, a member of the crew, or a passenger,
you must:
■ ​

show your CANPASS authorization, personal

identification (original documents), and any

required immigration documents to a customs
or immigration officer upon request;
■ ​

[FONT=BookAntiqua,Bold]not [/FONT]transfer your CANPASS privileges,

identification, or documents; and

■ ​

follow all the rules and requirements listed in

this brochure and in the [FONT=BookAntiqua,Italic]CANPASS – Private[/FONT]

[FONT=BookAntiqua,Italic]Aircraft – Participant’s Guide[/FONT], and all the terms
and conditions set out on your CANPASS
authorization.​

[FONT=BookAntiqua,Bold]Notes[/FONT]​

All persons on board the aircraft must hold a
CANPASS authorization.​

Although it is the responsibility of the person in
charge of the aircraft to report on behalf of all
authorized persons on board an aircraft, each
individual remains responsible for complying
with customs and immigration legislation.​

​

 

[gunfyter]

Man.... I am learning... "everything you ever wanted to know about CANPASS but were afraid to ask".

 

[jetwash]

Actually, "corporate" CANPASS will not apply to the FLOPS pilots, as we all have "Private Aircraft" CANPASS authorization. The company put this into place when we were still running everything 91 and to my knowledge, everyone has the Private Aircraft authorization. A whole different set of rules. This means EVERY PERSON on board must have their CANPASS authorization in hand to utilize this procedure.

All persons on board the aircraft must hold a
CANPASS authorization.​

[/LEFT]

Thats the one I read and was refering too in my above post.

 

[dash_trash]

I was referring to Greygoose, as he mentioned the corporate brochure.

 

[ITFL]

The non canpass guys at flops go back quite some time.. I remember 5 or 6 years ago flying with FO's that could not get a canpass. It would usually happen someething like this: PBI TEB w pax.. get into Teb blackberry starts ringing with a recovery trip to some airport/fishing camp 100 miles north of montreal.. Fo then tells me he cant go directly there because of ______ . The call goes into Ops and they either give you stby or build a quickturn at Toronto or Montreal

1 was for a dui the other was for a charge involving a bar fight where some random guy attacked this guys girlfriend and the pilot basically put him in a coma for 2 weeks.

I know I have posted here in the past and the die hard union guys have acccused me of being management for spreading what they call fud regarding the demise of flops but remember guys and gals you have to plan to the worst and hope for the best dont sit back and pass up possible opportunities that may come your way because of a chance at a contract like NJA.. NJA is a completely different animal.

I don't think you are management, you seem pretty reasonable. That being said I do think you are taking the union busters bait, hook, line, and sinker.

No doubt there are some differences between NJ and FLOPS. But there are also a lot of similarities.

1. Both managements were and are loosing money by the truckload during bargaining. Amazing how quickly that changed after NJ ended bargaining. A quinkie-dink, I think not.

2. Both managements hired a "White Knight" Boister/Tyler, to come in and "save" their companies from the bad/bad union.

3. Both managements were and are inexperienced in fighting a union war and have turned to attorneys, who were and are giving them bad advice in an effort to bust the union, all the while taking advantage of that inexperience. Because the problem is the attorneys are only interested in prolonging the fight, in an effort to line their pockets. Historically that's what these types of law firms do; look it up.

4. Both managements were and are trying to fight the union by going out and buying lots of supplemental lift. Which is a mistake and did and will cost them.

The only real difference I see between these two companies is NJ is much larger and was able to sustain a protracted union war with it's pilots. FLOPS is smaller and will need to make a move to try and decertify the union sooner then later. It simply cannot sustain this fight like NJ could and this is why we are seeing all of these attacks on our quality of life; benefits, canpass, carpet dances, firings, etc. It's an effort to undermine our pilots confidence in their union. The problem is, once again their inexperience has led them astray, these actions, which they feel some urgency to take only build our solidarity, which is why in the end they will fail.

Another difference is that FLOPS went out and hired the infamous Ford & Harrison to advise them on how to get rid of the union. Because they are a predatory - that is they prey on both the union and management to line their pockets - law firm, we have seen many more underhanded, borderline legal actions on the part our management than NJ pilots did.

One last similarity I'd like to highlight. Once the NJ pilots finally made it clear to their managers that they were singing from the same sheet of music and would rather burn the place down, rather then continue to live without a contract, management had no choice but to give in. This is something that we are building to, day by day at FLOPS, and in the end our management will be forced to make the same choice.

 

[clickclickboom]

I don't think you are management, you seem pretty reasonable. That being said I do think you are taking the union busters bait, hook, line, and sinker.

No doubt there are some differences between NJ and FLOPS. But there are also a lot of similarities.

1. Both managements were and are loosing money by the truckload during bargaining. Amazing how quickly that changed after NJ ended bargaining. A quinkie-dink, I think not.

2. Both managements hired a "White Knight" Boister/Tyler, to come in and "save" their companies from the bad/bad union.

3. Both managements were and are inexperienced in fighting a union war and have turned to attorneys, who were and are giving them bad advice in an effort to bust the union, all the while taking advantage of that inexperience. Because the problem is the attorneys are only interested in prolonging the fight, in an effort to line their pockets. Historically that's what these types of law firms do; look it up.

4. Both managements were and are trying to fight the union by going out and buying lots of supplemental lift. Which is a mistake and did and will cost them.

The only real difference I see between these two companies is NJ is much larger and was able to sustain a protracted union war with it's pilots. FLOPS is smaller and will need to make a move to try and decertify the union sooner then later. It simply cannot sustain this fight like NJ could and this is why we are seeing all of these attacks on our quality of life; benefits, canpass, carpet dances, firings, etc. It's an effort to undermine our pilots confidence in their union. The problem is, once again their inexperience has led them astray, these actions, which they feel some urgency to take only build our solidarity, which is why in the end they will fail.

Another difference is that FLOPS went out and hired the infamous Ford & Harrison to advise them on how to get rid of the union. Because they are a predatory - that is they prey on both the union and management to line their pockets - law firm, we have seen many more underhanded, borderline legal actions on the part our management than NJ pilots did.

One last similarity I'd like to highlight. Once the NJ pilots finally made it clear to their managers that they were singing from the same sheet of music and would rather burn the place down, rather then continue to live without a contract, management had no choice but to give in. This is something that we are building to, day by day at FLOPS, and in the end our management will be forced to make the same choice.

One fundamental difference..

Berkshire Hathaway has or has had investment in nearly every facet of this industry from insurance, to fbo, to commercial fuel contracts, to flight crew training, to aircraft production, to insurance, etc etc etc etc etc

They had more to lose by allowing a failure.

With Raytheons latest sale of their GA side to one of Berkshires partner companies ( I.E. Latest Upgrade of the Hawler Order) Raytheon has nothing to lose other than an existing liability.

A bunch of pissed pilots and a union with Mafioso roots cant overcome the simple abc economics that run this industry.. I am sure if flops can make money thats great if they cant Raytheon can take the writeoffs for the contract buybacks, pop a few excedrin, and move on without looking back.

Sorry guy but i don't think flops will make it out of this one. Hope I am wrong

 

[ITFL]

I remember the same kind of hand-wringing was going on while NJ was in bargaining. These companies are always trying to convince people the sky is falling when they are sitting at the table.

One thing I think you are overlooking, FLOPS is a profitable business, that's what Raytheon has to loose. They will make a simple business decision. No FLOPS will mean less money in mothers till.

One thing is sure if as you say, you hope your dire predictions will not come to fruition, why spread fear? Also give the "Mafioso ties" thing a rest, it's a dead horse and it's a statement that places the rest of your argument into question. If you want not to be perceived as management, stop talking like management.

 

[clickclickboom]

I remember the same kind of hand-wringing was going on while NJ was in bargaining. These companies are always trying to convince people the sky is falling when they are sitting at the table.

One thing I think you are overlooking, FLOPS is a profitable business, that's what Raytheon has to loose. They will make a simple business decision. No FLOPS will mean less money in mothers till.

One thing is sure if as you say, you hope your dire predictions will not come to fruition, why spread fear? Also give the "Mafioso ties" thing a rest, it's a dead horse and it's a statement that places the rest of your argument into question. If you want not to be perceived as management, stop talking like management.

Spent almost 8 years at flops and left in the top 7% of seniority. Never was an Pgm Manager, Check Airman, or a " Come into County Boy" As a matter of fact i never did a day of office duty in county for anything. Later on if i flew into GCF i would stay at corporate wings or go to the hotel. I personally dont think they will make it. After they lost 115 million in 05 i lost faith and bailed. It is just dissappointing to offer a view other then you die hards and then get slammed as a fud spreader or management boy.All I am guilty of is seeking as much information about flops and their financial health as possible and then making my career decisions accordingly.

Also if I were management wouldnt i want flops to be successful as well? Afterall the jerkoffs in cleveland are making 6 figures plus bonuses for basically being incompetent///????

Hey at least you all moved up a number on the list when i left