FLOPS Phenom overrun

[ksu_aviator]

Just throwing some numbers out there.

Opera (official perf data for the 300) for a wet runway at 17C and 900 MSL says at

16,000 lbs - 4847 feet required
13,000 lbs - 4209 feet required

If you cross the threshold at 10 kts over ref, the new numbers are:

16,000 lbs - 5499 feet required
13,000 lbs - 4810 feet required

I doubt they landed near 16,000 lbs, but you can see that even at low weights, a little extra speed means you have to nail the TDZ or you will go off the end. If they were "high and fast", there's no doubt that they got the outcome that the charts predicted.

 

[GooseHZ]

Never would have thought of that.....Thanks Mr.Obvious.

 

[rajflyboy]

We sure are getting a lot of different answers for what s considered stabilized

How can that be?

 

[rajflyboy]

And what if the winds are gusting to 40 knots?

Then what is considered stabilized?

 

[Jetz]

We sure are getting a lot of different answers for what s considered stabilized

How can that be?

Hey, Rajfly - idea for you. Take a guess at what you think is a stabilized approach. Maybe crack open that company standards book of yours to see what they say. Begin the conversation and we'll pipe in with our ideas.

Hint: 200 knots on short final AINT a stabilized approach. (AKA a normal Southwest Airlines approach - Pre-Burbank that is.)

 

[t-bone]

We sure are getting a lot of different answers for what s considered stabilized

How can that be?

Really? The few comments that have actually addressed the definition have all said the same thing. But of course each company may define it slightly differently, and that's their prerogative.

I flew into FCM today...FBO said they did land on 10R (the longer runway) and that it had recently stopped raining.

 

[Rupert.]

Just throwing some numbers out there.

Opera (official perf data for the 300) for a wet runway at 17C and 900 MSL says at

16,000 lbs - 4847 feet required
13,000 lbs - 4209 feet required

If you cross the threshold at 10 kts over ref, the new numbers are:

16,000 lbs - 5499 feet required
13,000 lbs - 4810 feet required

I doubt they landed near 16,000 lbs, but you can see that even at low weights, a little extra speed means you have to nail the TDZ or you will go off the end. If they were "high and fast", there's no doubt that they got the outcome that the charts predicted.

Those are factored numbers. Unfactored wet would be around 2900 feet required. They had to have been way faster than 10 kts too fast.

 

[X-rated]

And what if the winds are gusting to 40 knots?

Then what is considered stabilized?

As my post said, circumstances beyond the norm require a special briefing. In your example, both pilots should damn well have talked about and considered what a adding 20Kts to REF will do to the landing performance and agree on hard and fast rules to mitigate the risk. If your not adhering to predefined maximum stabilized approach criteria I would never want to fly with you let alone put a family member in your plane. Good luck Cowboy! Stop trying to stir the pot. If you're really not doing this, (which I find suspect) take a clue from every other pilot on here and learn something.

I've reread every post. Everyone is pretty much saying the exact same thing. You're scaring me!

 

[rajflyboy]

X rated

Answer thy question?

So you are saying you will fly an approach at ref or ref plus 10 in winds gusting to 40 knots?

Where is that in the Afm? I'd like to see that.

 

[X-rated]

X rated

Answer thy question?

So you are saying you will fly an approach at ref or ref plus 10 in winds gusting to 40 knots?

Where is that in the Afm? I'd like to see that.

I'm pretty sure I did answer your question. If it was necessary to add 20 kts to Ref, I would first discuss it with the other pilot to make sure we were both ok doing so and then agree on hard and fast rules to mitigate the risk. After we have agreed on what we are going to do, that would become the new stabilized approach criteria for that approach only.

I think you're not grasping the concept of stable approach. It's putting the airplane in predefined window of flight perimeters and not accepting being outside those parameters after the fact. You may adjust those parameters if the situation dictates, but that is something that needs to be briefed ahead of time and not reacted to when you get behind the airplane.