FLOPS Management, Read this; You're on Notice

[Whoosh!]

The IBT is not messing around and this latest management stunt suggests that they're feeling the pressure. Hey management, you ain't seen nothin' yet!

The following implication is not sanctioned by the IBT1108;
Peak travel is just around the corner!:smash:

You jackasses don't even realize that you pissed off enough pilots enough times that you're actually encouraging a work action during your precious peak travel period. What's funnier is that the pilots will sit back and watch the train wreck with a grin.


And you loose your job too idiot. Thanks a lot.

Do you really want to continue to be employed with the crappiest fractional carrier that ever existed anyway bud?

While the rest of the industry continues to improve, Options just keeps getting worse. Nobody wants to get hired there. Almost everyone seems to be looking for other jobs. Their seniority list has shrunk by almost half what it once was. Talk to some of the 7 or 8+ yr Captains over there- ask them what they're making and how they're treated. Currently, they could bail (as I said, many are trying) and make more in their FIRST or second year at one of the competitors as a STARTING FO. Pathetic. This is the drive behind the fight- if there was ever any hope of things improving it would only be because the pilots organized as a group (read UNION) and agreed to stop taking it up the a$$. If management ever had any intention of doing this at their own will, they would’ve done it by now.

They can/have screwed the pilots with vacation policy changes, crew meal authorization times, CANPASS requirements, per diem cuts, medical co-pay, duty times, etc, etc… all with the union in house but you’re telling me those pilots are supposed to believe it when mgmt says, “we were going to give you a raise but we can’t now because you voted in a union”?

All these guys with the union are trying to fight back for you. You should be thanking your freaking union. They're on your side... they're the ONLY ones fighting for you. They're your co-workers. And, the ONLY hope you have of things improving.

Here's the scariest part. FLOPS mgmt may be dumb, but I seriously doubt dumb enough not to recognize how this will play out. 600 pissed-off pilots who have complete control over whether those airplanes fly or not. If they are that dumb, the company will go under anyway. If they’re not that dumb and they just want to continue to fight their own employees, their arrogance will destroy the company. What a waste. At the very least, they could give those pilots industry standard treatment. FLOPS mgmt doesn't do this and doesn’t give a sh1t.

So, you’ve got all these pilots who would rather see the company go down in flames so they can gladly take better jobs at other carriers and stop being treated like crap…. and… a management team too arrogant and ignorant to stop throwing fuel on the fire. If you were an investor, would you even consider buying this company? If you are employed at Flight Options, wouldn’t you be a little worried about your future? Management seems to have no vested interest in preserving the health of that company and that’s scary.

 

[jonjuan]

Then why is it alll of the other fractionals are able to make money and not us?

Who said the rest are making money? 1108?

 

[GooseHZ]

really?

Prove it...




FUD FUD FUD

 

[FracMonkey]

Get educated before you spout off!

Who said the rest are making money? 1108?

Look at the other fracs financials. NJ and Flex are both making money. I don't know about Shares and frankly don't care.

By the way, it's standard practice for management to hide money and cry "poor us" during negotiations.

Anyone seen the new signs on the building at CGF and on the MX facilities? Wonder what those cost.....

 

[skyismyoffice]

Who said the rest are making money? 1108?

It's not just making money, FLOPs doesn't seem to be doing anything to insure this company will be here in a year. I know what management has been advertising about inproving our financial position. We all know how we achieved profitability - by cutting back everything that had value. This may have worked for the short term but looking forward things are very grim. While everyone else seems to be building, we are going the other way.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You mean is this Illegal..What happened to setting the standard for safety...LOL

HOW TO PRE-FLIGHT A BEECHJET​

1. Power lever gators (the rubber that keeps stuff from falling into the pedestal) needs to be intact not worn downing item
2. Bonding cables under the spoilerons
3. Top of brake calipers for leaks
4. Plastic conduits for wires for the main gear for fraying and damage
5. Hydraulic lines that go into the pressure switches below the reservoir (mx might try to get you to leave a rag in there for the next flight to check for drips. this is unsafe and illegal) don't even reach in to wipe them (I can't reach them anyway and I have slender long arms)
6. Missing rings/washers on the air stairs, or safety wire, safety wire is not per the BJ MX Manual
7. Nose wheel steering pin for a frayed cable (hazard as it might cut your fingers)(puncture wounds by sharp metal are especially prone to infection)
8. Pitot tubes for worn coating
9. Elevator horn coating (check with control lock installed for more thorough viewing)
10. Door seal channel for damage from door pins
11. Move all pax seats for free movement and locking (check for shoulder harness placards, including the lav seat)
12. All placards (exterior and interior) installed and readable
13. Michelins are installed instead of Goodyear’s, check sidewalls for wear as they are slightly wider and often rub while spinning down in the wells shortly after gear retraction
14. Seat belt extender placards for compatibility with seat belt systems with shoulder harnesses
15. O2 mask microphone function
16. Accumulator window too hazed to see through
17. Broken safety wire on emer gear/door/brake handle
18. Burned out fuel/hyd shutoff valve lights
19. Takeoff pitch trim horn doesn't sound if trim is SLIGHTLY out of the green
20. Takeoff pitch trim horn does sound if trim is BARELY within green.
21. Aileron trims run at different speeds.
22. One aileron trim hesitates partway through full range
23. O2 mask smoke clearing device broken
24. O2 mask weak pressure for inflating halo
25. O2 mask does not stay in cradle.
26. Smoke goggles too scratched/dirty to see safely.
27. Smoke goggles cover(s) missing/damaged.
28. Check for slippage on the engine inlet screws
29. Static and pitot drains are closed
30. Fire extinguisher properly charged
31. Cockpit trim indicator agrees w/ trim position marking on vertical stab
32. Cracked static wicks can be hard to spot without a gentle tug
33. Non-LED rear nav lights have a short lifespan
34. Drain holes under horizontal stab are clear
35. bonding cables under the spoilerons
36. Allowed, two degree's of roll per second when selecting flaps 10
37. Missing LED's on the clocks (No IFR)
38. Check the knife valve on the crapper. It is MEL-able, but a real live mechanic must come out and disconnect the electrical
39. Missing screws around the access panels ... found one plane missing 28!!!
40. Feed back from the hand held mikes. It’s a no no
41. Foil coated Fire retardant blankets in the main landing gear wells. Torn, punctured or missing the foil coating? This is a downing item according to QA. Not MDL’able
42. Engage the autopilot prior to doing the stall test. When the stick shaker comes on, it MUST also disconnect the autopilot.
43. Run your elevator trim full down and full up. If the needle pass the RED limit marks ... broke
44. On battery power only, run your rudder trim from full right to left or visa versa. The rudder must have full travel in less than 64 seconds per the mx manual
45. When selecting flaps 30, be sure they indicate 30, not 29 not 31 ... can you tell me what REF is for a flaps 29 or 31 approach
46. Big Dents under the door from stair malfunction. Must be measured with a caliper, That area is pressurized
47. Nose strut bottoming or bouncing on taxi, nose strut to low
48. Main door handle. If it lifts up without pressing the red button your done
49. Cabin door closed, the "Red" markings for the door pins must be "Completely Covered". This is listed in the AFM
50. All of this because, SAFETY, SERVICE, AND PROFITABILITY

I've seen this stunt before. You are dumb enough to print this and use it against the airline on a message board you think is void of the FAA.

The FAA is smart enough to print this and keep it for after the CBA. Then, when things "calm down" they will ramp check you and look for these. Don't think for a moment that they won't ground the airplane and write you up for operating as unairworthy with undocumented discrepancies. I have witnessed this before, especially with new maintenance inspectors.

 

[Whoosh!]

They must be paying you pretty well, B19.

 

[Mooneymite]

I've seen this stunt before. You are dumb enough to print this and use it against the airline on a message board you think is void of the FAA.

The FAA is smart enough to print this and keep it for after the CBA. Then, when things "calm down" they will ramp check you and look for these. Don't think for a moment that they won't ground the airplane and write you up for operating as unairworthy with undocumented discrepancies. I have witnessed this before, especially with new maintenance inspectors.

B-19, you've just lost any credibility you ever had in my eyes!

I've been around a lot longer than you have and I can tell you the FAA doesn't have the will or the manpower to do as you say unless they happen to be on a witch-hunt. If you were involved, I suspect they were out to get you and I can understand why based on your recent posts. You are a danger to the industry; I would suspect you are also danger in an aircraft.

 

[SilverSurfer]

My company not managements

I helped start Option and have given almost 10 years of my life to this company. Sh!tboy and his cohorts have been here 4 and have turned it into one of the worst places a pilots could work. I would rather work through our union doing whatever they ask to reach a contract then leave the company to a$$ wipes like this, even if it means the end of the company. I've been here longer them most anyone in the company and have a right to take this stand.:smash:

 

[Frac Cap]

B-19, I will agree with you on this one point. There are other people watching us, people like the FAA, and people like prospective owners. Both are unwanted attention.

But the way upper management is running things, it doesn't look like it is for long term growth, but just for short term gain on paper. I thought of a very appropriate analogy that fits what management is doing to the health of our company. It is kind of like that recent commuter RJ crash on an empty repo. The crew thought they would see if they could get the aircraft to 410 just for fun. What they didn't realize is that while they were climbing to 410, they were doing it on the backside of the power curve. They were sacrificing airspeed for altitude. Like our management is sacrificing the health and happiness of our front line employees, cutting back on benefits, not fixing aircraft correctly, not refurbishing interiors, not maintaining an ascetically pleasing fleet with cheep or old paint jobs that look like freighters, "K-mart catering" as quoted by owners, and finally, reducing the stock that our customers enjoy on the aircraft all in an effort to make the current numbers look good. We all know what happened to the RJ, they unfortunately put themselves in a place that they could not recover from, and crashed. Yes we can do a slashing of MX bases and jobs. Cut back on employees, salaries, aircraft aesthetics, and stock. Just like the RJ crew sacrificing airspeed for altitude, we are sacrificing all these other things to temporarily make the bottom line look good. But you can only do that for so long until we run out of airspeed (owners). There is a proper way to get to 410 in an RJ, which is slowly. There is also a way to get to, and maintain profitability.

I now know management reads this board. I am not a bitter employee, so please don't discount what I am trying to say as just more ranting from a disgruntled employee. I like to feel like I am one of the good guys with an open mind and no hidden agenda. I try to do the right thing by my crew, owners, and company in that order. I am trying to shed light where some don't see or understand. I am afraid that there may be a tipping point where we as a company fail to recognize we are on the backside of that power curve, and financially crash.

 

[WabiSabi]

I've seen this stunt before. You are dumb enough to print this and use it against the airline on a message board you think is void of the FAA.

The FAA is smart enough to print this and keep it for after the CBA. Then, when things "calm down" they will ramp check you and look for these. Don't think for a moment that they won't ground the airplane and write you up for operating as unairworthy with undocumented discrepancies. I have witnessed this before, especially with new maintenance inspectors.

This is the most ignorant post from you so far. What is illegal about this list? Name just one item. There is nothing that would raise the eyebrows of the FAA.

How is this list "against the airline"? It simply contributes to safe and legal operations.


Bob, that wasn't even a nice try.

 

[Hobbes]

I've seen this stunt before. You are dumb enough to print this and use it against the airline on a message board you think is void of the FAA.

The FAA is smart enough to print this and keep it for after the CBA. Then, when things "calm down" they will ramp check you and look for these. Don't think for a moment that they won't ground the airplane and write you up for operating as unairworthy with undocumented discrepancies. I have witnessed this before, especially with new maintenance inspectors.

FUD FUD FUD. What is the issue? Are any of these discrepancies illegitimate? Isn't that why when you put them on a 501 they have to be fixed? Why don't you address them one by one, and spell out what your issue is with pilots looking for these things on their aircraft? What do you suggest? The FAA is going to show up on the ramp and ask all pilots to empty their pockets and show the contents of all documents on their phones and laptops, etc.? Even if a pilot had an extra checklist of common things to make sure were not broken on an airplane, under what grounds would the FAA have an issue with this?

You are a sadly mistaken as usual if you think that ramp checks could ever work the way you propose. We have been through ramp checks with your piece of crap poorly maintained airplanes and we know what it is like.

But you probably know more about what happens from behind your desk right? When the drawer on your desk stops working you can ignore it because no one's life is at stake. You can ignore the scratch on your desk because only you see it, not a customer. Your chair doesn't have to function 100% correctly because you are not going 500 mph through clouds and being asked to go down into mountain valleys and over hundreds of miles of open water.

The real question at hand is why our maintenance department does not take care of these airplanes so that pilots could not find all those discrepancies. Is it because they are instructed NOT to find new writeups? Is it because there are not enough planes and pilots to cover trips, and your schedulers drive mx decisions instead of the way it should be in a real safety oriented flight department where trips are scheduled when mx is done, instead of at flight options where mx is done when the trip is scheduled? And lastly, is it because your management is so poor that they only way they can make the books look right is to slash on everything in sight like other posters here suggest? I believe it is all three of those, and that is the REAL issue the FAA will be investigating soon. NOT pilots who write up legitimate squawks when and where they find them. In fact, the pilots who seem to have all their writeups occur at a maintenance base and in clumps of 5 and more are the ones who need to worry about FAA scrutiny. NOT the pilots writing these things as they find them. You all are just in panic mode because you don't know how to manage the situation.

Keep up the FUD, you are helping us out tremendously! You deserve a higher plane award for going above and beyond what it takes to help the pilots build solidarity.

 

[Myster79]

I've seen this stunt before. You are dumb enough to print this and use it against the airline on a message board you think is void of the FAA.

The FAA is smart enough to print this and keep it for after the CBA. Then, when things "calm down" they will ramp check you and look for these. Don't think for a moment that they won't ground the airplane and write you up for operating as unairworthy with undocumented discrepancies. I have witnessed this before, especially with new maintenance inspectors.

Again B-19, you make no sense.

This is not a stunt. We REAL pilots are just exchanging information regarding the aircraft we fly. This has nothing to do with Flight Options, except maybe they own the most Beechjets. Furthermore, I applaud the pilots for helping each other find possible discrepancies that could affect the airworthiness of the aircraft. Flight Options management should be pleased that their pilots are so committed to safety and service for the owners.

 

[50Pesos]

B-19, I will agree with you on this one point. There are other people watching us, people like the FAA, and people like prospective owners. Both are unwanted attention.

But the way upper management is running things, it doesn't look like it is for long term growth, but just for short term gain on paper. I thought of a very appropriate analogy that fits what management is doing to the health of our company. It is kind of like that recent commuter RJ crash on an empty repo. The crew thought they would see if they could get the aircraft to 410 just for fun. What they didn't realize is that while they were climbing to 410, they were doing it on the backside of the power curve. They were sacrificing airspeed for altitude. Like our management is sacrificing the health and happiness of our front line employees, cutting back on benefits, not fixing aircraft correctly, not refurbishing interiors, not maintaining an ascetically pleasing fleet with cheep or old paint jobs that look like freighters, "K-mart catering" as quoted by owners, and finally, reducing the stock that our customers enjoy on the aircraft all in an effort to make the current numbers look good. We all know what happened to the RJ, they unfortunately put themselves in a place that they could not recover from, and crashed. Yes we can do a slashing of MX bases and jobs. Cut back on employees, salaries, aircraft aesthetics, and stock. Just like the RJ crew sacrificing airspeed for altitude, we are sacrificing all these other things to temporarily make the bottom line look good. But you can only do that for so long until we run out of airspeed (owners). There is a proper way to get to 410 in an RJ, which is slowly. There is also a way to get to, and maintain profitability.

I now know management reads this board. I am not a bitter employee, so please don't discount what I am trying to say as just more ranting from a disgruntled employee. I like to feel like I am one of the good guys with an open mind and no hidden agenda. I try to do the right thing by my crew, owners, and company in that order. I am trying to shed light where some don't see or understand. I am afraid that there may be a tipping point where we as a company fail to recognize we are on the backside of that power curve, and financially crash.

I cant help to agree. After being here just short of a decade and watching this whole thing be put together and now disassembled. It is sad days upon us. I hope that I am wrong but it seems to be the out for Raytheon. They couldnt just shut the doors, because they would get sued to no end. So if they slowly choke the business via employees and customers. Then they can wash their hands of the whole thing while putting some coin in there pocket while doing it. RIP FLOPS Time to dig a whole 2X2Xyou.

 

[FRLWD]

I've seen this stunt before. You are dumb enough to print this and use it against the airline on a message board you think is void of the FAA.

The FAA is smart enough to print this and keep it for after the CBA. Then, when things "calm down" they will ramp check you and look for these. Don't think for a moment that they won't ground the airplane and write you up for operating as unairworthy with undocumented discrepancies. I have witnessed this before, especially with new maintenance inspectors.

I have to agree with WabiSabi, this truly is your most ignorant post to date.

The FAA couldn't care less about company-employee relations and politics. They only care whether said company and it's employees are operating within the guide lines set forth by the FAR's.

When is a pilot truly going to get into trouble?.........When the Airworthiness Inspector finds a discrepancy that has not been address properly with a 501.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about this list.

Give my regards to Lorenzo, scab.

 

[bchjetdrvr]

This is the most ignorant post from you so far. What is illegal about this list? Name just one item. There is nothing that would raise the eyebrows of the FAA.

How is this list "against the airline"? It simply contributes to safe and legal operations.


Bob, that wasn't even a nice try.

I second all that. There is nothing illegal about that list. Nothing. A discrepancy is a just that. Something is wrong with the airplane. It is now in a condition other then when it was type certificated.
You are following proper company guidlines by recording a disceprancy. MEL it, CDL it, MDL it or FUK it. But record it. Then let them take care of the paper work to get it back in the air.

There isn't enough paper on the planet to create a "legal" checklist and the items allowed to be written up. That's all bull. There is no such thing as a legal or illegal checklist. If you ever get called to the carpet - ask the mang pukes "Where is the checklist and all the items I am allowed to use?" Watch them stare at each other in disbelief your smart enough to ask that question.

Don't be scared to use that list. F--K them and the uke: Ford & Harrison horse they road in on.

PS - One more - Emergency exit instructions on outside faded from sunlight? Can't read it. Write it UP!

 

[B19 Flyer]

I have to agree with WabiSabi, this truly is your most ignorant post to date.

The FAA couldn't care less about company-employee relations and politics. They only care whether said company and it's employees are operating within the guide lines set forth by the FAR's.

When is a pilot truly going to get into trouble?.........When the Airworthiness Inspector finds a discrepancy that has not been address properly with a 501.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about this list.

Give my regards to Lorenzo, scab.

First, you know nothing about Lorenzo or how many jobs he saved in the industry with his intervention at CAL or the consolidation of many of the failing airlines of the day. And futhurmore, my guess is that you know little about REALLY happened at Eastern. None of that though has anything to do with my opinion of unions. That opinion comes from personal experience.

Also, my post about the list has little to do about unions and the FAA, even though they quickly grow tired of the BS.

The point about the list was this. You post the list now and the list doesn't go away just because there is a CBA and pilots stop picking the airplane to shreds to slow things down.

A year after the CBA you have an air return at MKE and out of nowhere the list appears from the pocket of a bored PMI that has nothing better to do. Suddenly your day has gone to hell in a handbasket as the airplane is gone over with a fine toothed comb using the list as a guideline. I've experienced this more than once, and the MKE example is a true story (and without question the worst).

The only thing that is "union" about this story is that if the pilots weren't trying to slow the air carrier down as a result of the union activity, the list wouldn't exist for owners to feel unsafe and for the FAA to use against you.

Whether the maintenance issues are valid or not, is it REALLY a good idea to post all the shortcomings of the airplanes for the public and FAA to see on a public message board? I think not and it would not be there without union presence in the carrier.

 

[WabiSabi]

First, you know nothing about Lorenzo or how many jobs he saved in the industry with his intervention at CAL or the consolidation of many of the failing airlines of the day. And futhurmore, my guess is that you know little about REALLY happened at Eastern. None of that though has anything to do with my opinion of unions. That opinion comes from personal experience.

Ba ha ha ha ha! Lorenzo "saved" jobs?? Abject nonsense! Actually, I can see how you would make such a stupid claim.

I suppose you think that Icahn "saved" TWA?

Be sure to give my regards to Lorenzo too, scab.

Also, my post about the list has little to do about unions and the FAA, even though they quickly grow tired of the BS.

Once again, the FAA doesn't even care enough to grow tired of anything in regard to this topic.

When someone is babbling on mindlessly, bible thumping on some management agenda, one often contradicts oneself as you have done here.

The point about the list was this. You post the list now and the list doesn't go away just because there is a CBA and pilots stop picking the airplane to shreds to slow things down.

"shreds"?? Every item on this list is legitimate. Are you suggesting that these items should be overlooked? Some of the items? Tell me, which ones. Do you have a Beechjet type rating Mr. Beechjet guru? If you ever were once a professional pilot, you're certainly not anymore. You're just some management lackey. Did they take your balls when you started in management?

A year after the CBA you have an air return at MKE and out of nowhere the list appears from the pocket of a bored PMI that has nothing better to do. Suddenly your day has gone to hell in a handbasket as the airplane is gone over with a fine toothed comb using the list as a guideline. I've experienced this more than once, and the MKE example is a true story (and without question the worst).

As you're proven wrong on these threads, you just keep adjusting your story. I'm starting to think that you're being spoonfed what to post here as opposed to you actually thinking for yourself.

The only thing that is "union" about this story is that if the pilots weren't trying to slow the air carrier down as a result of the union activity, the list wouldn't exist for owners to feel unsafe and for the FAA to use against you.

Whether the maintenance issues are valid or not, is it REALLY a good idea to post all the shortcomings of the airplanes for the public and FAA to see on a public message board? I think not and it would not be there without union presence in the carrier.

You referred to a list of valid preflight items as "shortcomings"?? And yes, posting such a list is a good idea. What? Pilots should not have access to this information so management can continue with with trumping safety and operating legally for the bottom line? What is wrong with the public having access to this info? Aviation isn't some Masonic secret society with secret handshakes.

Furthermore, Options pilots were discussing the intricacies of preflighting airplanes well before voting in union representation.

Now, stop washing down the Prozac with the Kool Aid and maybe someday you can return to reality.

 

[skyismyoffice]

You post the list now and the list doesn't go away just because there is a CBA and pilots stop picking the airplane to shreds to slow things down.

Of course it doesn't go away. Just because we have a CBA doesn't mean we stop preflighting the aircraft? Your logic perplexes me...

 

[clickclickboom]

Fight Or Firesale

Okay guys lets get this back on track. I did nearly 8 years at flops. When i left we had about 900 guys and I was in the double digits on the list.

As an outsider with first hand knowledge of the inside I offer my 2 cents:

All of you need to be prepared to burn the place to the ground. Absolutely Absolutely do not make 1 compromise on any safety issue whatsoever.

Steadfast safety and professionalism could save your life or that of your fellow pilot.

Trust me guys there are many many jobs out there. Allowing yourself to be bullied with the the thought that things will get better is BS. Allowing yourself to be bullied because you are scared for your job is worse.

If you get fired for an unjust cause you file your lawsuits and find a new job. Starting over at a real company is better then what flops has become.

The strongest will survive and you guys are some of the most professional and competent pilots out there. Driving flops into the ground will be the final nail in the coffin for scheeringa who already has a horrible reputation in the airline industry but I can assure you that each and every one of you 5 years out will have readjusted to your new positions just fine.

Fight or Firesale that should be your new catch phrase