FLOPS Management, Read this; You're on Notice

[WabiSabi]

I've seen this stunt before. You are dumb enough to print this and use it against the airline on a message board you think is void of the FAA.

The FAA is smart enough to print this and keep it for after the CBA. Then, when things "calm down" they will ramp check you and look for these. Don't think for a moment that they won't ground the airplane and write you up for operating as unairworthy with undocumented discrepancies. I have witnessed this before, especially with new maintenance inspectors.

This is the most ignorant post from you so far. What is illegal about this list? Name just one item. There is nothing that would raise the eyebrows of the FAA.

How is this list "against the airline"? It simply contributes to safe and legal operations.


Bob, that wasn't even a nice try.

 

[Hobbes]

I've seen this stunt before. You are dumb enough to print this and use it against the airline on a message board you think is void of the FAA.

The FAA is smart enough to print this and keep it for after the CBA. Then, when things "calm down" they will ramp check you and look for these. Don't think for a moment that they won't ground the airplane and write you up for operating as unairworthy with undocumented discrepancies. I have witnessed this before, especially with new maintenance inspectors.

FUD FUD FUD. What is the issue? Are any of these discrepancies illegitimate? Isn't that why when you put them on a 501 they have to be fixed? Why don't you address them one by one, and spell out what your issue is with pilots looking for these things on their aircraft? What do you suggest? The FAA is going to show up on the ramp and ask all pilots to empty their pockets and show the contents of all documents on their phones and laptops, etc.? Even if a pilot had an extra checklist of common things to make sure were not broken on an airplane, under what grounds would the FAA have an issue with this?

You are a sadly mistaken as usual if you think that ramp checks could ever work the way you propose. We have been through ramp checks with your piece of crap poorly maintained airplanes and we know what it is like.

But you probably know more about what happens from behind your desk right? When the drawer on your desk stops working you can ignore it because no one's life is at stake. You can ignore the scratch on your desk because only you see it, not a customer. Your chair doesn't have to function 100% correctly because you are not going 500 mph through clouds and being asked to go down into mountain valleys and over hundreds of miles of open water.

The real question at hand is why our maintenance department does not take care of these airplanes so that pilots could not find all those discrepancies. Is it because they are instructed NOT to find new writeups? Is it because there are not enough planes and pilots to cover trips, and your schedulers drive mx decisions instead of the way it should be in a real safety oriented flight department where trips are scheduled when mx is done, instead of at flight options where mx is done when the trip is scheduled? And lastly, is it because your management is so poor that they only way they can make the books look right is to slash on everything in sight like other posters here suggest? I believe it is all three of those, and that is the REAL issue the FAA will be investigating soon. NOT pilots who write up legitimate squawks when and where they find them. In fact, the pilots who seem to have all their writeups occur at a maintenance base and in clumps of 5 and more are the ones who need to worry about FAA scrutiny. NOT the pilots writing these things as they find them. You all are just in panic mode because you don't know how to manage the situation.

Keep up the FUD, you are helping us out tremendously! You deserve a higher plane award for going above and beyond what it takes to help the pilots build solidarity.

 

[Myster79]

I've seen this stunt before. You are dumb enough to print this and use it against the airline on a message board you think is void of the FAA.

The FAA is smart enough to print this and keep it for after the CBA. Then, when things "calm down" they will ramp check you and look for these. Don't think for a moment that they won't ground the airplane and write you up for operating as unairworthy with undocumented discrepancies. I have witnessed this before, especially with new maintenance inspectors.

Again B-19, you make no sense.

This is not a stunt. We REAL pilots are just exchanging information regarding the aircraft we fly. This has nothing to do with Flight Options, except maybe they own the most Beechjets. Furthermore, I applaud the pilots for helping each other find possible discrepancies that could affect the airworthiness of the aircraft. Flight Options management should be pleased that their pilots are so committed to safety and service for the owners.

 

[50Pesos]

B-19, I will agree with you on this one point. There are other people watching us, people like the FAA, and people like prospective owners. Both are unwanted attention.

But the way upper management is running things, it doesn't look like it is for long term growth, but just for short term gain on paper. I thought of a very appropriate analogy that fits what management is doing to the health of our company. It is kind of like that recent commuter RJ crash on an empty repo. The crew thought they would see if they could get the aircraft to 410 just for fun. What they didn't realize is that while they were climbing to 410, they were doing it on the backside of the power curve. They were sacrificing airspeed for altitude. Like our management is sacrificing the health and happiness of our front line employees, cutting back on benefits, not fixing aircraft correctly, not refurbishing interiors, not maintaining an ascetically pleasing fleet with cheep or old paint jobs that look like freighters, "K-mart catering" as quoted by owners, and finally, reducing the stock that our customers enjoy on the aircraft all in an effort to make the current numbers look good. We all know what happened to the RJ, they unfortunately put themselves in a place that they could not recover from, and crashed. Yes we can do a slashing of MX bases and jobs. Cut back on employees, salaries, aircraft aesthetics, and stock. Just like the RJ crew sacrificing airspeed for altitude, we are sacrificing all these other things to temporarily make the bottom line look good. But you can only do that for so long until we run out of airspeed (owners). There is a proper way to get to 410 in an RJ, which is slowly. There is also a way to get to, and maintain profitability.

I now know management reads this board. I am not a bitter employee, so please don't discount what I am trying to say as just more ranting from a disgruntled employee. I like to feel like I am one of the good guys with an open mind and no hidden agenda. I try to do the right thing by my crew, owners, and company in that order. I am trying to shed light where some don't see or understand. I am afraid that there may be a tipping point where we as a company fail to recognize we are on the backside of that power curve, and financially crash.

I cant help to agree. After being here just short of a decade and watching this whole thing be put together and now disassembled. It is sad days upon us. I hope that I am wrong but it seems to be the out for Raytheon. They couldnt just shut the doors, because they would get sued to no end. So if they slowly choke the business via employees and customers. Then they can wash their hands of the whole thing while putting some coin in there pocket while doing it. RIP FLOPS Time to dig a whole 2X2Xyou.

 

[FRLWD]

I've seen this stunt before. You are dumb enough to print this and use it against the airline on a message board you think is void of the FAA.

The FAA is smart enough to print this and keep it for after the CBA. Then, when things "calm down" they will ramp check you and look for these. Don't think for a moment that they won't ground the airplane and write you up for operating as unairworthy with undocumented discrepancies. I have witnessed this before, especially with new maintenance inspectors.

I have to agree with WabiSabi, this truly is your most ignorant post to date.

The FAA couldn't care less about company-employee relations and politics. They only care whether said company and it's employees are operating within the guide lines set forth by the FAR's.

When is a pilot truly going to get into trouble?.........When the Airworthiness Inspector finds a discrepancy that has not been address properly with a 501.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about this list.

Give my regards to Lorenzo, scab.

 

[bchjetdrvr]

This is the most ignorant post from you so far. What is illegal about this list? Name just one item. There is nothing that would raise the eyebrows of the FAA.

How is this list "against the airline"? It simply contributes to safe and legal operations.


Bob, that wasn't even a nice try.

I second all that. There is nothing illegal about that list. Nothing. A discrepancy is a just that. Something is wrong with the airplane. It is now in a condition other then when it was type certificated.
You are following proper company guidlines by recording a disceprancy. MEL it, CDL it, MDL it or FUK it. But record it. Then let them take care of the paper work to get it back in the air.

There isn't enough paper on the planet to create a "legal" checklist and the items allowed to be written up. That's all bull. There is no such thing as a legal or illegal checklist. If you ever get called to the carpet - ask the mang pukes "Where is the checklist and all the items I am allowed to use?" Watch them stare at each other in disbelief your smart enough to ask that question.

Don't be scared to use that list. F--K them and the uke: Ford & Harrison horse they road in on.

PS - One more - Emergency exit instructions on outside faded from sunlight? Can't read it. Write it UP!

 

[B19 Flyer]

I have to agree with WabiSabi, this truly is your most ignorant post to date.

The FAA couldn't care less about company-employee relations and politics. They only care whether said company and it's employees are operating within the guide lines set forth by the FAR's.

When is a pilot truly going to get into trouble?.........When the Airworthiness Inspector finds a discrepancy that has not been address properly with a 501.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about this list.

Give my regards to Lorenzo, scab.

First, you know nothing about Lorenzo or how many jobs he saved in the industry with his intervention at CAL or the consolidation of many of the failing airlines of the day. And futhurmore, my guess is that you know little about REALLY happened at Eastern. None of that though has anything to do with my opinion of unions. That opinion comes from personal experience.

Also, my post about the list has little to do about unions and the FAA, even though they quickly grow tired of the BS.

The point about the list was this. You post the list now and the list doesn't go away just because there is a CBA and pilots stop picking the airplane to shreds to slow things down.

A year after the CBA you have an air return at MKE and out of nowhere the list appears from the pocket of a bored PMI that has nothing better to do. Suddenly your day has gone to hell in a handbasket as the airplane is gone over with a fine toothed comb using the list as a guideline. I've experienced this more than once, and the MKE example is a true story (and without question the worst).

The only thing that is "union" about this story is that if the pilots weren't trying to slow the air carrier down as a result of the union activity, the list wouldn't exist for owners to feel unsafe and for the FAA to use against you.

Whether the maintenance issues are valid or not, is it REALLY a good idea to post all the shortcomings of the airplanes for the public and FAA to see on a public message board? I think not and it would not be there without union presence in the carrier.

 

[WabiSabi]

First, you know nothing about Lorenzo or how many jobs he saved in the industry with his intervention at CAL or the consolidation of many of the failing airlines of the day. And futhurmore, my guess is that you know little about REALLY happened at Eastern. None of that though has anything to do with my opinion of unions. That opinion comes from personal experience.

Ba ha ha ha ha! Lorenzo "saved" jobs?? Abject nonsense! Actually, I can see how you would make such a stupid claim.

I suppose you think that Icahn "saved" TWA?

Be sure to give my regards to Lorenzo too, scab.

Also, my post about the list has little to do about unions and the FAA, even though they quickly grow tired of the BS.

Once again, the FAA doesn't even care enough to grow tired of anything in regard to this topic.

When someone is babbling on mindlessly, bible thumping on some management agenda, one often contradicts oneself as you have done here.

The point about the list was this. You post the list now and the list doesn't go away just because there is a CBA and pilots stop picking the airplane to shreds to slow things down.

"shreds"?? Every item on this list is legitimate. Are you suggesting that these items should be overlooked? Some of the items? Tell me, which ones. Do you have a Beechjet type rating Mr. Beechjet guru? If you ever were once a professional pilot, you're certainly not anymore. You're just some management lackey. Did they take your balls when you started in management?

A year after the CBA you have an air return at MKE and out of nowhere the list appears from the pocket of a bored PMI that has nothing better to do. Suddenly your day has gone to hell in a handbasket as the airplane is gone over with a fine toothed comb using the list as a guideline. I've experienced this more than once, and the MKE example is a true story (and without question the worst).

As you're proven wrong on these threads, you just keep adjusting your story. I'm starting to think that you're being spoonfed what to post here as opposed to you actually thinking for yourself.

The only thing that is "union" about this story is that if the pilots weren't trying to slow the air carrier down as a result of the union activity, the list wouldn't exist for owners to feel unsafe and for the FAA to use against you.

Whether the maintenance issues are valid or not, is it REALLY a good idea to post all the shortcomings of the airplanes for the public and FAA to see on a public message board? I think not and it would not be there without union presence in the carrier.

You referred to a list of valid preflight items as "shortcomings"?? And yes, posting such a list is a good idea. What? Pilots should not have access to this information so management can continue with with trumping safety and operating legally for the bottom line? What is wrong with the public having access to this info? Aviation isn't some Masonic secret society with secret handshakes.

Furthermore, Options pilots were discussing the intricacies of preflighting airplanes well before voting in union representation.

Now, stop washing down the Prozac with the Kool Aid and maybe someday you can return to reality.

 

[skyismyoffice]

You post the list now and the list doesn't go away just because there is a CBA and pilots stop picking the airplane to shreds to slow things down.

Of course it doesn't go away. Just because we have a CBA doesn't mean we stop preflighting the aircraft? Your logic perplexes me...

 

[clickclickboom]

Fight Or Firesale

Okay guys lets get this back on track. I did nearly 8 years at flops. When i left we had about 900 guys and I was in the double digits on the list.

As an outsider with first hand knowledge of the inside I offer my 2 cents:

All of you need to be prepared to burn the place to the ground. Absolutely Absolutely do not make 1 compromise on any safety issue whatsoever.

Steadfast safety and professionalism could save your life or that of your fellow pilot.

Trust me guys there are many many jobs out there. Allowing yourself to be bullied with the the thought that things will get better is BS. Allowing yourself to be bullied because you are scared for your job is worse.

If you get fired for an unjust cause you file your lawsuits and find a new job. Starting over at a real company is better then what flops has become.

The strongest will survive and you guys are some of the most professional and competent pilots out there. Driving flops into the ground will be the final nail in the coffin for scheeringa who already has a horrible reputation in the airline industry but I can assure you that each and every one of you 5 years out will have readjusted to your new positions just fine.

Fight or Firesale that should be your new catch phrase