FLOPS Impass?

[Galaxy]

Bob-soon you will be gone-your job will still be there but someone else will be doing it. I hear Boisture is looking for friends. Call him up then come back and post your boo hoo story of how another union made you lose your job.
Happy to be helping close the doors at FLOPS!

 

[Galaxy]

Not qualified, eh? :laugh:

Nope..Turns out I am too busy doing a long and thorough pre-flight on old broken FLOPS planes. Then I sit in a FBO waiting for MX.

 

[jetwash]

Isn't it funny that the number of pilots and aircraft shrunk almost 50% and the number of Vice Presidents at Flight Options grew by 50 %.

Maybe we should hire a VP to look into this?

 

[netjetwife]

Here's what happened, Jetwash.... The FLOPS tried to put their heads together to solve the problem and discovered they were lacking the required brainpower. Their answer to just add more VPs is not the right one, but considering the source, it comes as no surprise..... Those tempted to believe their FUD need to realize when companies are truly struggling financially they don't have the luxury of wasting money. Since the FLOPS are brainstorming ways to solve their self-induced crisis here are some suggestions to get them back on track. The biggest clue: INDUSTRY STANDARD

It has already been earned!
No more underpaying the pilots
Doing so much to build the business.
Unequivocally, their demands are justified.
Stop wielding the stick, bring out carrots.
Treat the Options pilots like professionals.
Realize that now is the time to settle it.
Your choice--pay right or lose pilots.

Start bargaining in good faith.
Try to see it from the pilots' side--
Admit that the going rate is only fair.
No more acting penny-wise, pound-foolish,
Dragging it out just makes matters worse.
Answers are out there--follow your rivals.
Racing to the bottom is only for losers.
Dare to be the best by paying right.

 

[Galaxy]

It is funny how the words of a pilots wife can upset the desk jockey, village idiot, Fud Spinner, Moron, FUD and Harrasment, Bob-whatever your name is...

I like ya NJW. I wish my wife was as involved as you are.
My family and I are ready for the final chaper.
Ending bad flying jobs one at a time.

A CONTRACT or CLOSING the DOORS!

 

[Whoosh!]

This message is hidden because B19 Flyer is on your ignore list.

Yeah, this is nice feature. Now, if only more people would do this and stop quoting him in their replies. There's only so much arguing you can do with an idiot before you start looking like one yourself...

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks Galaxy! The feeling is mutual... I consider you guys my virtual neighbors. My actual neighbors are nice people but they can't identify with frac issues like y'all do. I'm surprised more of the wives aren't as involved. I guess it's just my personality; I was a very involved AF wife, too, and I volunteer at my children's school.

Regarding ready for it to end, it's definitely time to finish hammering out the contract. The Options pilots and families have been quite patient. Enough already! The FLOPS won't be breaking new ground (which takes longer) all they have to do is follow the industry standard. They are doing that with all the other costs of doing business so they can just add professional pilot wages to the list.

On a related topic, (the analogy fits) stucco is popular in our area; we like the look and the fact it's low maintenance. I started checking it out last summer. Sure I wish it cost less, but I've talked to enough neighbors and done enough research to realize there's a going rate for getting a house stuccoed, especially by an experienced crew. The paint job is failing; I have to make a decision. Invest in stucco--or keep repainting. We're going to follow the lead of our neighbors and have our house done this summer. We decided that the value justifies the expense.

Likewise, the FLOPS have "neighbors" and enough available data to realize that there's a going rate for frac pilots. By now they should have reached the decision I have. When the structure is failing you have to make the investment that ensures its viability. You can go for lasting quality with curb appeal, or spend more over time as you keep replacing a worn out system that looks uninspired. You get what you pay for.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Thanks Galaxy! The feeling is mutual... I consider you guys my virtual neighbors. My actual neighbors are nice people but they can't identify with frac issues like y'all do. I'm surprised more of the wives aren't as involved. I guess it's just my personality; I was a very involved AF wife, too, and I volunteer at my children's school.

Regarding ready for it to end, it's definitely time to finish hammering out the contract. The Options pilots and families have been quite patient. Enough already! The FLOPS won't be breaking new ground (which takes longer) all they have to do is follow the industry standard. They are doing that with all the other costs of doing business so they can just add professional pilot wages to the list.

On a related topic, (the analogy fits) stucco is popular in our area; we like the look and the fact it's low maintenance. I started checking it out last summer. Sure I wish it cost less, but I've talked to enough neighbors and done enough research to realize there's a going rate for getting a house stuccoed, especially by an experienced crew. The paint job is failing; I have to make a decision. Invest in stucco--or keep repainting. We're going to follow the lead of our neighbors and have our house done this summer. We decided that the value justifies the expense.

Likewise, the FLOPS have "neighbors" and enough available data to realize that there's a going rate for frac pilots. By now they should have reached the decision I have. When the structure is failing you have to make the investment that ensures its viability. You can go for lasting quality with curb appeal, or spend more over time as you keep replacing a worn out system that looks uninspired. You get what you pay for.

And I'm sure the going rate for my local brain surgeon is slightly higher than it is for the local general practitioner. I wouldn't expect my local practitioner to charge the higher price simply because he's a doctor.

Flight Options and NJ are two different operations and you seem to think the value is the same. It's not the same. Two different companies, two different balance sheets and two different mixes of fleets.

I'm certain when you get your estimate to fix your stucco, you will get different prices. It's not all one price.

Hamburgers are not the same price everywhere, cars are not the same price everywhere, as a matter of fact, nothing is the same price anywhere, yet by your thinking all pilots should be paid the same.

Go to your local car dealership and see if all is priced the same. Wrong.

You have no respect for the working people.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Here's what happened, Jetwash.... The FLOPS tried to put their heads together to solve the problem and discovered they were lacking the required brainpower. Their answer to just add more VPs is not the right one, but considering the source, it comes as no surprise..... Those tempted to believe their FUD need to realize when companies are truly struggling financially they don't have the luxury of wasting money. Since the FLOPS are brainstorming ways to solve their self-induced crisis here are some suggestions to get them back on track. The biggest clue: INDUSTRY STANDARD

It has already been earned!
No more underpaying the pilots
Doing so much to build the business.
Unequivocally, their demands are justified.
Stop wielding the stick, bring out carrots.
Treat the Options pilots like professionals.
Realize that now is the time to settle it.
Your choice--pay right or lose pilots.

Start bargaining in good faith.
Try to see it from the pilots' side--
Admit that the going rate is only fair.
No more acting penny-wise, pound-foolish,
Dragging it out just makes matters worse.
Answers are out there--follow your rivals.
Racing to the bottom is only for losers.
Dare to be the best by paying right.

The value of anything is what somebody is willing to pay for it. It's clear that FLOPS doesn't want to match NJ wages, thus the best thing to do will be for all those pilots to flock over to NJ. (I'll bet NJ won't take all that want to go though!)

There is a fool born every minute (PT Barnum) and the FLOPS union supporters such as you are a fools to think that the union is going to help the company.

 

[shanes123]

Just thinking out loud here...Wonder if theres a way Flops pilots could market themselves to all the Fractionals? Citation Shares,NJ,Flex,XO Jet..And Cause enough of a mass exodos to FLOPS that we actually shut the doors!! At least we would go on our terms and put Flops three Goons out of commission for good..I for one already have a emergency back up job. Just for the reason that I dont think this company is gonna survive anyway..To bad Flops pilots couldnt all set a date when there last day is and all quit on that day..It would solve Sh*tfingers problem of having to pay the pilots a industry standard wage...I am not talking a strike here..I am talking walking out and not coming back..And watch Flops crumble to the ground

 

[skanza]

Nope..Turns out I am too busy doing a long and thorough pre-flight on old broken FLOPS planes. Then I sit in a FBO waiting for MX.

Here we go again with the "safe pre-flight". We'll just add you to the list too buddy.

Just to clear it up now, as I can feel the gunfire responses being formed, I don't advocate illegal flying or carrying write-ups, the same as I don't advocate breaking and airplane in the name of the union...which does happen. *See above post*

 

[Helmsalee]

Carrying write ups and breaking airplanes both happen and both are wrong. However, if the mx is as bad as claimed, there is not much need for the latter. MHO

 

[dime line]

Here we go again with the "safe pre-flight". We'll just add you to the list too buddy.

Just to clear it up now, as I can feel the gunfire responses being formed, I don't advocate illegal flying or carrying write-ups, the same as I don't advocate breaking and airplane in the name of the union...which does happen. *See above post*

You just don't get it. If there are 5 pilots at this company Breaking airplanes, I think that would be a lot. YOU need to understand these airplanes are OLD, OLD, OLD, and OLD means thay break. Knowbody is making up writeups at FLOPS, and the union leadership is definately not advocating doing so. So enjoy the 50% increase in LEGAL write-ups since Nov 07

Were done playing your games

 

[netjetwife]

Just thinking out loud here...Wonder if theres a way Flops pilots could market themselves to all the Fractionals? Citation Shares,NJ,Flex,XO Jet..And Cause enough of a mass exodos to FLOPS that we actually shut the doors!! At least we would go on our terms and put Flops three Goons out of commission for good..I for one already have a emergency back up job. Just for the reason that I dont think this company is gonna survive anyway..To bad Flops pilots couldnt all set a date when there last day is and all quit on that day..It would solve Sh*tfingers problem of having to pay the pilots a industry standard wage...I am not talking a strike here..I am talking walking out and not coming back..And watch Flops crumble to the ground

I've always thought the pilots that helped to build the company have every right to expect it to be managed like its successful rivals in the industry. I think it's better to insist on a fair contract that makes it possible to stay put where you've made friends and built seniority. The Options pilots have earned a profitable, stable career at FltOps. If the FLOPS (managers) have to be forced by way of the contract to do their jobs with as much professionalism as the pilots then I say hold your ground and make 'em do it.

INEPT MANAGERS DRAGGING THE COMPANY DOWN SHOULD GET THE BLACK BOOT

 

[skanza]

Games?

You just don't get it. If there are 5 pilots at this company Breaking airplanes, I think that would be a lot. YOU need to understand these airplanes are OLD, OLD, OLD, and OLD means thay break. Knowbody is making up writeups at FLOPS, and 1. the union leadership is definately not advocating doing so. 2.So enjoy the 50% increase in LEGAL write-ups since Nov 07

Were done playing your games

1. Sure they don't admit to it. But there are plenty out there that have that "we'll show 'em" attitude and think this is a good way to bargain. It's indisputable and those who do it know exactly who they are and what thery're doing.

2.How do you explain this increase and where do you get your data? I think an increase like this is something that needs attention, meaning what's the source? How can the fleet all of the sudden have that many more problems?

These airplanes are not "OLD, OLD, etc..." the average age is 8 years. That is pretty young in airplane years. Lear 20s, Westwinds, Saberliners and 20+ Falcons are "old" airplanes and we don't use 'em.

 

[jetwash]

2.How do you explain this increase and where do you get your data? I think an increase like this is something that needs attention, meaning what's the source? How can the fleet all of the sudden have that many more problems?

It looks like someone is out of the loop.

Maybe you should ask around to someone who lives by stats :laugh:

 

[Helmsalee]

Because no one is carrying write ups any more, dummy!

 

[dime line]

1. Sure they don't admit to it. But there are plenty out there that have that "we'll show 'em" attitude and think this is a good way to bargain. It's indisputable and those who do it know exactly who they are and what thery're doing.

2.How do you explain this increase and where do you get your data? I think an increase like this is something that needs attention, meaning what's the source? How can the fleet all of the sudden have that many more problems?

These airplanes are not "OLD, OLD, etc..." the average age is 8 years. That is pretty young in airplane years. Lear 20s, Westwinds, Saberliners and 20+ Falcons are "old" airplanes and we don't use 'em.

#1 Your right about the ones that "will show em", but they are on their own, not under union.

#2 Sheringa, go upstairs and ask him, this was right from his mouth.


Not OLD, maybe not in years but when you fly 1200hrs per year on a corporate airframe that should only fly 400hr per year, your gonna break quite a bit

 

[B19 Flyer]

1. Sure they don't admit to it. But there are plenty out there that have that "we'll show 'em" attitude and think this is a good way to bargain. It's indisputable and those who do it know exactly who they are and what thery're doing.

2.How do you explain this increase and where do you get your data? I think an increase like this is something that needs attention, meaning what's the source? How can the fleet all of the sudden have that many more problems?

These airplanes are not "OLD, OLD, etc..." the average age is 8 years. That is pretty young in airplane years. Lear 20s, Westwinds, Saberliners and 20+ Falcons are "old" airplanes and we don't use 'em.

This is classic union rhetoric, they all think they are doing something new. Once the company begins to trend it for evidence, the judge will grant an injunction against the union, the union will claim they didn't sanction it and the union will be told to cease and desist anyway along with putting 25 grand as a bond.

They aren't as bright as they think they are.

 

[Galaxy]

Here we go again with the "safe pre-flight". We'll just add you to the list too buddy.

Just to clear it up now, as I can feel the gunfire responses being formed, I don't advocate illegal flying or carrying write-ups, the same as I don't advocate breaking and airplane in the name of the union...which does happen. *See above post*

Just wondering where you read into the post to think I was doing something illegal? Must be that noxious gas they are pumping into the OCC you are breathing.
Why not do safe and thorough pre and post flights? Isn't that why dispatch send me out to the plane at 5 am to do a 5 hour inspection till my first trip. They obviously didn't want me resting. So I will do the best job that I can do. We have the oldest and most neglected fllet of all the fracs. Do you think it is that difficult to find neglected items?
Don't worry skanza- we will do the fighting for you and you can take the pay raise and either give it back amongst the owners or the general FLOPS budget. I do hope you do something productive with it and tell your family while they are on a nice vacation that it is being provided by the hard working union at FLOPS. Then you can admit to them that you were never one of them but a corporate leach instead. What a role model..

some more 501's coming your way----I can even hear that heap out there breaking......ha ha ha ha ha