FLOPS announcement?

[Lrjet55]

So whats the big announcement?

 

[learflyer]

I thought the meeting was tommorow?

 

[Dep676]

It is!!!!!!!!!

 

[learflyer]

Better be something good after about two years of hype!!

 

[Lrjet55]

My bad, I thought it was the 17th. Not trying to stir the pot or anything.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Don't hold your breath guys. This has been a crappy deal from the word GO. I can not imagine that it is gonna get better with a press release or whatever the Corporate Clowns call it.

A couple of my buds attended the focus group meetings but they guys ain't talking. I guess they are all under threat of death or something worse.

 

[Dep676]

I was told that what was talked about at the focus groups wasn't anything that we haven't already heard. I just hope we don't get those green and tan ties back. I think I might have to go flip burgers if that is the case.

 

[FracDaddy]

Window Dressing

Gents this meeting is going to be simply nothing little more then a management PR and employee misinformation exercise. There will be no significant information from it, management will tell us things are great but we have to become more efficient, have better communications. That they are studying the information from the focus groups, that they will be forming some other kind of committee or group to work on this or that and most importantly find ways to cut cost, this translates of course to, they will be cutting something form the pilots. You will hear that we are cutting our fleet down to 4 aircraft types, see if you can guess which ones. They will deny of course that we are being bought by NJ, Carlyle Group, Swift or anyone else, and Riccie is not coming back, . You will not hear that you are getting a pay increase, a change to pay by years in service, a realignment of the seniority list or seats by seniority, that we are hiring more pilots or getting more jets, schedule will remain 8/7, simply status quo.

This is all designed to divert pilots focus away from the real and continuing problems and abuses that we all have to deal with. They know that the union question is coming up very soon and this is all they can do to try and misinform as many as possible to sway them away from considering a union here.

Do not be so soft minded

 

[learflyer]

Gents this meeting is going to be simply nothing little more then a management PR and employee misinformation exercise. There will be no significant information from it, management will tell us things are great but we have to become more efficient, have better communications. That they are studying the information from the focus groups, that they will be forming some other kind of committee or group to work on this or that and most importantly find ways to cut cost, this translates of course to, they will be cutting something form the pilots. You will hear that we are cutting our fleet down to 4 aircraft types, see if you can guess which ones. They will deny of course that we are being bought by NJ, Carlyle Group, Swift or anyone else, and Riccie is not coming back, . You will not hear that you are getting a pay increase, a change to pay by years in service, a realignment of the seniority list or seats by seniority, that we are hiring more pilots or getting more jets, schedule will remain 8/7, simply status quo.

This is all designed to divert pilots focus away from the real and continuing problems and abuses that we all have to deal with. They know that the union question is coming up very soon and this is all they can do to try and misinform as many as possible to sway them away from considering a union here.

Do not be so soft minded

That's exactly what is going to happen. I couldn't have said it better myself. Just trying to buy more time to keep the pilots "hoping".

 

[Grim Reaper]

Why are the pilots HOPING for anything when we all know the deal here.

The Corporate Clowns are not gonna tell us squat that will change line pilot life for the better.

 

[luvu]

strange you should mention death threats

Don't hold your breath guys. This has been a crappy deal from the word GO. I can not imagine that it is gonna get better with a press release or whatever the Corporate Clowns call it.

A couple of my buds attended the focus group meetings but they guys ain't talking. I guess they are all under threat of death or something worse.

http://p068.ezboard.com/frtapilotsfrm35.showMessage?topicID=21.topic

 

[FracCapt]

I spoke with Joe S. this week for about 30 minutes while in CGF waiting for an airplane to go green. During this conversation, the key points he made were:

- All rumors about being purchased by anybody - NJA, Swift, Carlyle, etc - are BS. He said we will continue to be owned by RAC and the private investors that currently own us.(take this one for what it's worth - he may not even know what's going on, or he may be required to deny - as they did with the FLOPS/RTA merger, right up until the announcement)

- Aircraft fleets will be BE400, Hawker 800XP, Citation X, and Legacy. All others will be phased out as contracts expire.

- The reason that people were required to sign a non-disclosure agreement from the "focus group" meetings is because they gave specific numbers as to how the company is doing. He further stated that we are not a publicly held company, so those numbers will not be released to the public. Also, the company future plan was disclosed at these meetings. (no, I wasn't at one of them - this is just what I was told)

- The reason that we did not make money last year was primarily caused by maintenance and fuel costs. Imagine that. Old airplanes break often, and they know this(now). That's why they plan to phase them out.

- Tier 3 domiciles will be going away(as if you guys didn't already know that). Unsure about some of the Tier 2.

I did not ask about the pilot hiring situation. I should have, but I didn't think about it.

 

[dime line]

You know i try to believe in the company that I work for, but I've talked to JS an frankly I don't believe a thing he says.

 

[learflyer]

I spoke with Joe S. this week for about 30 minutes while in CGF waiting for an airplane to go green. During this conversation, the key points he made were:

- All rumors about being purchased by anybody - NJA, Swift, Carlyle, etc - are BS. He said we will continue to be owned by RAC and the private investors that currently own us.(take this one for what it's worth - he may not even know what's going on, or he may be required to deny - as they did with the FLOPS/RTA merger, right up until the announcement)

- Aircraft fleets will be BE400, Hawker 800XP, Citation X, and Legacy. All others will be phased out as contracts expire.

- The reason that people were required to sign a non-disclosure agreement from the "focus group" meetings is because they gave specific numbers as to how the company is doing. He further stated that we are not a publicly held company, so those numbers will not be released to the public. Also, the company future plan was disclosed at these meetings. (no, I wasn't at one of them - this is just what I was told)

- The reason that we did not make money last year was primarily caused by maintenance and fuel costs. Imagine that. Old airplanes break often, and they know this(now). That's why they plan to phase them out.

- Tier 3 domiciles will be going away(as if you guys didn't already know that). Unsure about some of the Tier 2.

I did not ask about the pilot hiring situation. I should have, but I didn't think about it.

So the guys from the challengers, gulfstreams, kingairs, citations, will be flooding in to the smaller acft and further displacing SIC's who are on year 5 now without an upgrade. Great.

 

[dime line]

Yea Im really interested to see where SN#408 Falcon Capt is going to go when his plane is gone. And what about his 80,000 or so pay. For all of you union guys that say "look at what the union got Netjets pilots" well at NJ everybody senior to 408 would make equal to him.

And actually our new loss of per diem 41 (daily per diem)x 16 (vacation days in a year)=656 per year. give or take, I think that is just about a years union dues.....hmmmmm

 

[Mach92]

What cities are tier 3 and 2? If they choose to close these then what?

 

[Dep676]

There are 54 tier three airports used by about 100 FO pilots. What are the choices? Use another airport of company choice or move on.

What better way to thin out the pilot force. That is from a company stand point and a JS stand point. We might not need all these pilots until we get the fleets straighted out. So let's force them out and we will hire new guys that are cheaper.

I no way do I agree with this at all. Just some thought of guys on the road.

Have you really looked at the list of airports? Ever wonder how they figure a tier 2 or tier 3? The list is a joke. There are some ariports listed as a tier 2 that should be a tier 3. Also the other way around.

 

[Dep676]

I spoke with Joe S. this week for about 30 minutes while in CGF waiting for an airplane to go green. During this conversation, the key points he made were:

- All rumors about being purchased by anybody - NJA, Swift, Carlyle, etc - are BS. He said we will continue to be owned by RAC and the private investors that currently own us.(take this one for what it's worth - he may not even know what's going on, or he may be required to deny - as they did with the FLOPS/RTA merger, right up until the announcement)

- Aircraft fleets will be BE400, Hawker 800XP, Citation X, and Legacy. All others will be phased out as contracts expire.

- The reason that people were required to sign a non-disclosure agreement from the "focus group" meetings is because they gave specific numbers as to how the company is doing. He further stated that we are not a publicly held company, so those numbers will not be released to the public. Also, the company future plan was disclosed at these meetings. (no, I wasn't at one of them - this is just what I was told)

- The reason that we did not make money last year was primarily caused by maintenance and fuel costs. Imagine that. Old airplanes break often, and they know this(now). That's why they plan to phase them out.

- Tier 3 domiciles will be going away(as if you guys didn't already know that). Unsure about some of the Tier 2.

I did not ask about the pilot hiring situation. I should have, but I didn't think about it.

Do you actually believe anything that comes out that man's mouth? That is if I can really call him a man.

 

[Frac Daddy]

- Tier 3 domiciles will be going away(as if you guys didn't already know that). Unsure about some of the Tier 2.

I did not ask about the pilot hiring situation. I should have, but I didn't think about it.

Just for clarification; who is unsure about some of the Tier 2 airports. You or Joe S. Why would anyone be unsure about Tier 2 airports if, in order to be Tier 2, you met the requirements spelled out in the company manual.

 

[Dep676]

Just for clarification; who is unsure about some of the Tier 2 airports. You or Joe S. Why would anyone be unsure about Tier 2 airports if, in order to be Tier 2, you met the requirements spelled out in the company manual.

Not true there are a few airports that meet the companies 3 airline and 6 flights a days and they are called tier 3 airports. Meanwhile there are tier 2 airports that do not even meet the 3 airline 6 flights a day. I think it comes down to the buddy system again. Just like pay there are guys that are making 6 figures in the BJ that should not be.

 

[FracCapt]

Just for clarification; who is unsure about some of the Tier 2 airports. You or Joe S. Why would anyone be unsure about Tier 2 airports if, in order to be Tier 2, you met the requirements spelled out in the company manual.

Joe was unsure of the status of Tier 2. Based on the company meeting today, it sounds as if they are still not sure what, exactly, they plan to do. None of us know what qualifies an airport as a Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. I'd be willing to bet that they're looking at ALL the airports, and determining what the average cost is in/out of there...as well as availability of flights....and those that are much more expensive and/or restrictive will be gone, regardless of the "Tier" they are in.

 

[Frac Daddy]

Joe was unsure of the status of Tier 2. Based on the company meeting today, it sounds as if they are still not sure what, exactly, they plan to do. None of us know what qualifies an airport as a Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. I'd be willing to bet that they're looking at ALL the airports, and determining what the average cost is in/out of there...as well as availability of flights....and those that are much more expensive and/or restrictive will be gone, regardless of the "Tier" they are in.

Unless you are one of Joe's buddies.

 

[Dep676]

Joe was unsure of the status of Tier 2. Based on the company meeting today, it sounds as if they are still not sure what, exactly, they plan to do. None of us know what qualifies an airport as a Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. I'd be willing to bet that they're looking at ALL the airports, and determining what the average cost is in/out of there...as well as availability of flights....and those that are much more expensive and/or restrictive will be gone, regardless of the "Tier" they are in.

Joe is unsure of a lot of things. Except finding ways to screw the pilot group. That is the only thing he is good at. Also by the looks of his waistband. He is a pretty good eater too.

 

[minimums]

How many would quit if offered a 4/3 schedule?

I am 1.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

I am 2.

I know alot of people that would.

 

[inverted1]

Ya know what is funny...all of this fuel savings that we were so concerned with before is a total loss now that we have over 10 aircraft that aren't RVSM and running under FL 290.

oh well...