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Flight Options
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Yeah time is money. As far as our owners have some sort of business that they can write their share for. Well transporting Mr. Nahill around on our company plane so he does not have to move to Cleveland. Which actually cost us as employees money because I am pretty sure he does not own a share in the airplane. Oh yeah they are barely feeding my face too. The new pay scale that everyone would be happy with. Caused me not to get a raise until 2006.TONKER said:
I have and others have brought the rental car vs taxi to their attention more than once. The vivid memory I have about one specific time is. We were told they were watching the rental car budget. Well I case they are not watching the taxi budget then because they pi$$ away more money on taxis everyday. So bringing stuff to their attention does no good. They are going to do what they want and when they want. As long as they have the kool-aid bunch like you sticking up for them.
OCC has an SOP just like the pilots. The pilots are EXPECTED to adhere to the SOP, so why not OCC?TONKER said:
Our job is to take care of the passengers and operate our aircraft safely. Why DO YOU expect us to do OCC's job. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a 45 min cab ride is going to cost more than a rental car.
It doesn't take a PHD to figure out that a pilot needs time to eat or crew meals in general while working a 10 hour day with back to back trips.
KR used to offer the pilots a $1000 incentive for cost saving ideas. At least, then, we used to get some perk for saving the company money. I have submitted several cost saving ideas to the company. Do you really think they listen to the one? Do you really??
OCC is pre-buying charter to cover for maintenance down time, vacations, sick time, uncrewed aircraft etc. The daily rate (avg) I would estimate is around $100K per day, sometimes more, sometimes less. We don't have charter sell offs everyday, but more often than not.
You really don't have a clue if you think the company is going to reward you by saving a few dollars a month. Unless you are an SFO, which from your mentality, you are either an SFO or a new hire with little experience.
Either way, I would like to know how long you have been with this company, because unless you have been here for awhile and experienced the changes half of us have seen, you really shouldn't be spouting your mouth off.
tired of complainers
JetCapt69 I cannot agree with you anymore in regards to the Taxi vs. rental car...However, in many places we position or travel from, rental cars are not an option due to either time constraints or inability to return the car. My question to you is have you ever been inside and actually sat down with a scheduler or a dispatcher to see how the OCC operation works? I cannot stand 2 face people like you...how about next time you call in to OCC you tell the dispatcher or logistic person you talk to that you think they do not know how to do their job and follow SOP's instead of being all friendly because you need something. See how far that gets you. I understand how it can be frustrating when we are out there humping it and not getting a crew meal. Like I said before, if you see something that needs to be looked into, pick up that nice blackberry the company gives us and call your dispatcher and maybe you just might get a meal. It does not hurt to ask. It is people like you that bring down the organization with your attitude. If not getting a crew meal is the worst thing that happens to you that day feel lucky. Now in response to the pre-buy charter costs, that is only done on peak travel days. It is not a matter of vacation, or uncrewed aircraft. The major problem is Mx and people that call fatigue because they stayed up late the night prior to their aircraft coming up out of Mx and to their suprise, it came up early and now you have a 5am departure...Sorry bud, no sympathy here. You are probably the same person that is out there flying the plane at redline burning an exponentially high amount of fuel and only gaining 2 minutes on your trip time. Trust me the company will give back to us if you just start to contribute. By the way, I have been around for a while to see the changes both good and bad...I do have one cost saving idea too...it is remove people like you that are known as liabilities and cost the company more and more money each day.
JetCapt69 I cannot agree with you anymore in regards to the Taxi vs. rental car...However, in many places we position or travel from, rental cars are not an option due to either time constraints or inability to return the car. My question to you is have you ever been inside and actually sat down with a scheduler or a dispatcher to see how the OCC operation works? I cannot stand 2 face people like you...how about next time you call in to OCC you tell the dispatcher or logistic person you talk to that you think they do not know how to do their job and follow SOP's instead of being all friendly because you need something. See how far that gets you. I understand how it can be frustrating when we are out there humping it and not getting a crew meal. Like I said before, if you see something that needs to be looked into, pick up that nice blackberry the company gives us and call your dispatcher and maybe you just might get a meal. It does not hurt to ask. It is people like you that bring down the organization with your attitude. If not getting a crew meal is the worst thing that happens to you that day feel lucky. Now in response to the pre-buy charter costs, that is only done on peak travel days. It is not a matter of vacation, or uncrewed aircraft. The major problem is Mx and people that call fatigue because they stayed up late the night prior to their aircraft coming up out of Mx and to their suprise, it came up early and now you have a 5am departure...Sorry bud, no sympathy here. You are probably the same person that is out there flying the plane at redline burning an exponentially high amount of fuel and only gaining 2 minutes on your trip time. Trust me the company will give back to us if you just start to contribute. By the way, I have been around for a while to see the changes both good and bad...I do have one cost saving idea too...it is remove people like you that are known as liabilities and cost the company more and more money each day.
TONKER
Are you running for office you sound just like a politician. You spin everything anyone throws your way. How about answering why Nahill is costing the company money by running back and forth in the Diamond. I am sure there are airlines that go between BOS and CLE. Probably even direct flights at that.
You are just pi$$ed because you got called on the carpet by some for being a "company man". Once again put the kool-aid down before you hurt yourself.
As far as talking to a scheduler that is almost impossible. They will not talk to you because they claim to be to busy. I can not fault dispatchers they are just messengers. They just relay the message between us and whoever needs the info. Then back to us from that person. I can say all of the dispatchers on the XP row are great.
Are you running for office you sound just like a politician. You spin everything anyone throws your way. How about answering why Nahill is costing the company money by running back and forth in the Diamond. I am sure there are airlines that go between BOS and CLE. Probably even direct flights at that.
You are just pi$$ed because you got called on the carpet by some for being a "company man". Once again put the kool-aid down before you hurt yourself.
As far as talking to a scheduler that is almost impossible. They will not talk to you because they claim to be to busy. I can not fault dispatchers they are just messengers. They just relay the message between us and whoever needs the info. Then back to us from that person. I can say all of the dispatchers on the XP row are great.
Diesel
TEB Hilton resident
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,394
Have you guys ever thought about the liabilities of driving a rental car for the company? What if you wreck the car who pays for it? Who pays for your insurance rising? Who pays the ticket if you go through some hick town and the cop just wants to make quota?
Tonker- I'd say something but Dep pretty much shot you down.
Tonker- I'd say something but Dep pretty much shot you down.
Diesel
TEB Hilton resident
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,394
So your own personal insurance doesn't rise if you wreck the car? That's interesting you guys carry insurance from the company. That's why we at NJA have been fighting rental cars because they are piggybacking on our insurance.
As far as getting a ticket. Well you never know about a ticket. Could be your fault or the cops. So you have to pay the insurance increase from operating a vehicle for your company?
Our company has never stated what would happen in the above situation. Just "we'll take care of you." Nobody has ever shown any documentation how.
As far as getting a ticket. Well you never know about a ticket. Could be your fault or the cops. So you have to pay the insurance increase from operating a vehicle for your company?
Our company has never stated what would happen in the above situation. Just "we'll take care of you." Nobody has ever shown any documentation how.
Naive
In regards to office duty. I have had medical issues in the past that required my 8 days to be spent in OCC. I have seen first hand what goes on in the "pit". You are right, if you need a crew meal, call dispatch, they will get you some food, but as soon as you get off the phone they will refer to you as a "whining little b1tch". Mx gets PO'ed if you have an issue and will run to your program manager and squeal. If it is something that they "deem" that is not a major issue, you may be asked to carry it to scheduled maintenance.
Charter sell offs are a real issue. Everyday PAL, I have first hand knowledge of this from the front row. It is not only peak travel days, it is every day. If you want to know what one of the biggest expenses we incur is, its charter. Call the front row, call your PM or your check airman if you don't believe it. Call them and ask them what the charter costs are this week or last week.
I like Flight Options. It is a good job, but it used to be better. I understand how the economy, fuel prices, etc effect business, but our original management staff treated "us" pilots like an internal customer; with respect, understanding & professionalism.
Those days are dwindling. Communication is at an all time low. Our CEO doesn't communicate with us (last message Sept. 13th). You made a great point earlier, the BLACKBERRY is to improve communications. Bingo! Tell the boss that! If he can't take time to place a weekly announcement on the phone system, then maybe his secretary could leave us a BB message telling us that he just doesn't have time for us. He didn't have time to appear at the company picnic at the air show, so what do you expect.
This isn't anything new to the guys who are actually out there flying the line week after week. It is easy for you to sit in the OCC and sit on your high horse. You can get up and take a leak, get a cup of coffee, go to lunch or just stretch your legs anytime you want, then go home and sleep with your wife (boyfriend?) in your own bed.
Don't label the pilot group or myself as whiners, liabilities or any other pet name. We bust our @ss off everyday for this company because we like what we do. We (I) would like for everyone else in this company to start stepping up to the plate and doing their job. I for one and tired of doing everyone elses job, like explaining to the owner why we landed at an alternate due to bad weather and I'm sorry that owner services didn't call you in the past two hours to notify you of the change.
As many departments and personnel we have in OCC, this operation should be a fine tuned machine.
So, don't give me anymore of your 2 faced BS. I know more than you think.
Tonker there are times that a rental car may not be available, but there is no room for the time constraint scenerio you pose. Each crewmember is not supposed to be scheduled for any flight activity for 2 hours after their planned airline arrival. This will afford each crewmember is in position prior to scheduling an owner leg or repo for an owner leg. However, if it comes down to push & shove, scheduling will bend this SOP and schedule anyway. This is fine, it saves company money, but if it disservices an owner, it is unacceptable.TONKER said:
In regards to office duty. I have had medical issues in the past that required my 8 days to be spent in OCC. I have seen first hand what goes on in the "pit". You are right, if you need a crew meal, call dispatch, they will get you some food, but as soon as you get off the phone they will refer to you as a "whining little b1tch". Mx gets PO'ed if you have an issue and will run to your program manager and squeal. If it is something that they "deem" that is not a major issue, you may be asked to carry it to scheduled maintenance.
Charter sell offs are a real issue. Everyday PAL, I have first hand knowledge of this from the front row. It is not only peak travel days, it is every day. If you want to know what one of the biggest expenses we incur is, its charter. Call the front row, call your PM or your check airman if you don't believe it. Call them and ask them what the charter costs are this week or last week.
I like Flight Options. It is a good job, but it used to be better. I understand how the economy, fuel prices, etc effect business, but our original management staff treated "us" pilots like an internal customer; with respect, understanding & professionalism.
Those days are dwindling. Communication is at an all time low. Our CEO doesn't communicate with us (last message Sept. 13th). You made a great point earlier, the BLACKBERRY is to improve communications. Bingo! Tell the boss that! If he can't take time to place a weekly announcement on the phone system, then maybe his secretary could leave us a BB message telling us that he just doesn't have time for us. He didn't have time to appear at the company picnic at the air show, so what do you expect.
This isn't anything new to the guys who are actually out there flying the line week after week. It is easy for you to sit in the OCC and sit on your high horse. You can get up and take a leak, get a cup of coffee, go to lunch or just stretch your legs anytime you want, then go home and sleep with your wife (boyfriend?) in your own bed.
Don't label the pilot group or myself as whiners, liabilities or any other pet name. We bust our @ss off everyday for this company because we like what we do. We (I) would like for everyone else in this company to start stepping up to the plate and doing their job. I for one and tired of doing everyone elses job, like explaining to the owner why we landed at an alternate due to bad weather and I'm sorry that owner services didn't call you in the past two hours to notify you of the change.
As many departments and personnel we have in OCC, this operation should be a fine tuned machine.
So, don't give me anymore of your 2 faced BS. I know more than you think.
can't we all just get along
JetCapt69 I like what you said work like a fine tuned machine...not trying to pick on ya earlier...just tired of hearing people complain...we all need to pull together and weed out the people that do not want to fly. I know that there is just a handful out there, but they really bring down the organization...the complaints will always be there but as long as the job gets done and in a safe manner, I guess we can go home at the end of the tour happy...
JetCapt69 I like what you said work like a fine tuned machine...not trying to pick on ya earlier...just tired of hearing people complain...we all need to pull together and weed out the people that do not want to fly. I know that there is just a handful out there, but they really bring down the organization...the complaints will always be there but as long as the job gets done and in a safe manner, I guess we can go home at the end of the tour happy...
hawkercpt
oh crap! Now what?
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2002
- Posts
- 212
waveoff
breakin' the law
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2001
- Posts
- 122
more wisdom from xrated
You're a dope xrated! Your standard contribution to ANY discussion involving Options: Options going under, getting bought out, getting sold, merged, and on and on. Tonker, Still think you're livin in a dream world. Seems to me that you have a distorted view of the the always helpful and efficient OCC (concerned about the pilot force and ready to help at every turn). Call me cynical 'cause I am, have seen how things work for more than 3 years now and my reality and yours are much different.
You're a dope xrated! Your standard contribution to ANY discussion involving Options: Options going under, getting bought out, getting sold, merged, and on and on. Tonker, Still think you're livin in a dream world. Seems to me that you have a distorted view of the the always helpful and efficient OCC (concerned about the pilot force and ready to help at every turn). Call me cynical 'cause I am, have seen how things work for more than 3 years now and my reality and yours are much different.
fogrunner
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2001
- Posts
- 321
Same old stuff different day. I spent 5 years at FLOPS. The good the bad and the ugly. I was there for Kenny and Nahil. I don't know that KR really cared for the pilot group. I think he massaged the pilot group. There was a huge disconnect between what he advocated and what went on in the field. If you were a "friend of Ken"(fok) things were great. SFO was great if you were the 23 lucky individuals to benefit from it.
Joe S. told me if Raytheon had not come in, F.O. would have been out of business within about six months.
Nearly done with the DC-10 training. Checkride on Saturday night. I took a $35000 pay cut and lost 3 days off a month, however I am hopeful and confident in my new surrondings. I left many good friends who I miss. I don't miss working for Options, or the PM for the III. Has Tim M. broken the 3500hr mark yet?
Joe S. told me if Raytheon had not come in, F.O. would have been out of business within about six months.
Nearly done with the DC-10 training. Checkride on Saturday night. I took a $35000 pay cut and lost 3 days off a month, however I am hopeful and confident in my new surrondings. I left many good friends who I miss. I don't miss working for Options, or the PM for the III. Has Tim M. broken the 3500hr mark yet?
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beechjetpilot1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
- Posts
- 76
Another Good Deal
How do all of you FLOPs pilots feel about the new domicile program. For those of you not home, we got a mailing this week that says if your domicile is within 75 miles of another airport, logistics can now force you to drive to the other airport up to 75 miles away to catch airlines. They use the example of LAX/BUR/LGB/SNA/ONT. If I am based in ONT or SNA, you can bet that I am NOT going to drive 2 hours or more in traffic to LAX on day 1 and after a 16 hour day on day 8 drive 2 plus hours home....this is unsafe and we should fight it!!!! We have specific rules for domicile basing, and FLOPs needs to follow these rules. This is just another reduction in our quality of life. When are we all going to stand up for ourselves?
Furthermore, the new hotel deal we received in the same mailing is questionable. With that rate, I bet we won't still get points. Everytime they have some "good deal" for the company, we get screwed. We don't get paid industry standard and these points and living where you want make up for the difference. However, the more they take away, the less this job is worth it.
How do all of you FLOPs pilots feel about the new domicile program. For those of you not home, we got a mailing this week that says if your domicile is within 75 miles of another airport, logistics can now force you to drive to the other airport up to 75 miles away to catch airlines. They use the example of LAX/BUR/LGB/SNA/ONT. If I am based in ONT or SNA, you can bet that I am NOT going to drive 2 hours or more in traffic to LAX on day 1 and after a 16 hour day on day 8 drive 2 plus hours home....this is unsafe and we should fight it!!!! We have specific rules for domicile basing, and FLOPs needs to follow these rules. This is just another reduction in our quality of life. When are we all going to stand up for ourselves?
Furthermore, the new hotel deal we received in the same mailing is questionable. With that rate, I bet we won't still get points. Everytime they have some "good deal" for the company, we get screwed. We don't get paid industry standard and these points and living where you want make up for the difference. However, the more they take away, the less this job is worth it.
beechjetpilot1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
- Posts
- 76
BE40Driver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2002
- Posts
- 81
You should drive and park at your normal Domicile airport and take a taxi or rent a car to where ever your airlines or aircraft may be at the companies expense. This is why we have domiciles and we arrange and pay for parking! I have not recieved my mail yet, but that is the policy for day 1 and day 8 travel. also duty time starts when I pick up a car or taxi.
Frac Daddy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2001
- Posts
- 384
Don't have the mailing yet. Would that be 75 miles from your home or domicile? Certainly they can't expect a 3 hour response if you have to go from ONT to LAX.beechjetpilot1 said:
And I am also sure that if you were based in ONT and had arranged for free parking there they would reimburse you for the parking at LAX, right? NOT!
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