Flight Options

[Live4flyng]

Well, sorry guys, if there is a buy out it will not be NJA. The POS TA and rejection there of keep anything like that from happening.

You are right, it will be Berkshire Hathaway. I talked about this a year ago on this board and many called me crazy.

It is very important for the pilots at NJA to get this contract right this time. It will have an effect on at least (1000?) pilots. If the scope section of the TA isn't fixed, they may try to run Options as a non-union paralel operation similar to NJI. Our crack MEC defined the parent company of NJA as NJ Inc in the TA, instead of BH. Claiming BH refused to be bound by the agreement. The current contract binds the "company's parent".

 

[JetCapt69]

Well so you can get your facts straight I have worked under both regimes. All I said is that I came after the merger. I never said that I did not work there when KR was at the helm. I did work there when that slimball was at the helm. He's a crook and always will be.

He may have been a crook, but he was a "pilots crook". JN was instrumental in coordinating the merger and for sake of argument, he was the ACTING CEO at the time of the merger and for the year up to the merger.

So you didn't get to experience the better days of Flight Options. Since the merger, it has been a slow slide to 6 feet under. No one can argue this fact.

"Anyone have the number to that truck driving school, truck masters I think it is?"

 

[kingtut]

Sadly For You, the way the TA is written, and if it is accepted, it take almost forever if ever before the NEW NJA contract will do anyone bought by BH as a completely separate investment any favors.

BH owns NJA. Nothing says, in my mind anyway, that BH could not own a SEPARATE fractional with a completely separate work force. We could go on and on and discuss scope ya,da ya,da ya,da. Let's not. The Business of Business is Business.

Later

 

[TONKER]

Is your job really that hard???

I am tired of hearing all of your guys whine about problems. Why can't you just fly the airplane without b*tching? Quit looking at your watches and worrying about "duty time". Half of you out there have no clue how to compute your duty time. It seems as if your math skills are lacking. I also believe that most of you look for problems with your aircraft. Mx is not going to ask you to fly anything that may be unsafe. If they do, lets see some names on here regarding who it was and maybe those people need to leave. Just think of this scenario (which is pretty common)...everytime one of the Hawker 800xp guys decides to brake their airplane for some lame reason or claim that their fatigued after sitting in Mx for the past 2 days it costs the company money that could be given back in our paychecks. Look at the cost of a charter for a trip length of 2.3 hrs would be around 25k. Just that one charter would be an extra 26 dollars in every pilots paycheck if we only had to charter 1 flight every 2 weeks. If some people spend half of the effort that they spend in thinking on what to write up next, they may not be so tired and could take the load of the rest of us that actually do our job. By the way, they are hiring new pilots. They took the posting off because they have 14,000 already on file. And to what hotel you people stay in, does it really matter??? Who do you think you are??? I am sure you can handle the Holiday Inn every once in a while. Maybe they are just picking on you...I have not seen but one hotel that I could say would be sub par...They are more than likely putting you in the lower class hotel to help off-set the charter costs that you have caused the company??? Ever think of that???

 

[hawkercpt]

easy now boy...

settle down. Put the mouse down, and step away from the keyboard slowly and nobody is going to get hurt.

nice and easy...


here, I have a beer for you.

 

[Dep676]

I am tired of hearing all of your guys whine about problems. Why can't you just fly the airplane without b*tching? Quit looking at your watches and worrying about "duty time". Half of you out there have no clue how to compute your duty time. It seems as if your math skills are lacking. I also believe that most of you look for problems with your aircraft. Mx is not going to ask you to fly anything that may be unsafe. If they do, lets see some names on here regarding who it was and maybe those people need to leave. Just think of this scenario (which is pretty common)...everytime one of the Hawker 800xp guys decides to brake their airplane for some lame reason or claim that their fatigued after sitting in Mx for the past 2 days it costs the company money that could be given back in our paychecks. Look at the cost of a charter for a trip length of 2.3 hrs would be around 25k. Just that one charter would be an extra 26 dollars in every pilots paycheck if we only had to charter 1 flight every 2 weeks. If some people spend half of the effort that they spend in thinking on what to write up next, they may not be so tired and could take the load of the rest of us that actually do our job. By the way, they are hiring new pilots. They took the posting off because they have 14,000 already on file. And to what hotel you people stay in, does it really matter??? Who do you think you are??? I am sure you can handle the Holiday Inn every once in a while. Maybe they are just picking on you...I have not seen but one hotel that I could say would be sub par...They are more than likely putting you in the lower class hotel to help off-set the charter costs that you have caused the company??? Ever think of that???

Well sir I think that your thinking is flawed. It does not matter how much the company saves they are not going to give it to the crews. Tell me why they waste money on cabs instead of rental cars. Let me give you example. One crew member goes home and the other is coming to work. They pass each other on the highway spending 50 dollars for each. When there is another crew member sits in the hotel waiting. When they could have gotten a rental car ro 20 to 40 dollars and dropped one person off and picked up the other.

As far as charter trips. Airplanes break simple as that. I do agree with you that some people are just looking for something to break or write up. I would rather stay busy for my eight days. Sitting around gets old after a day. Some of it comes from the front row.

What about JN riding back and forth to MA in the Diamond. What does that cost? I am sure it is more than a airline ticket.

So step back and put the class down and dump the kool-aid out.

 

[waveoff]

I am tired of hearing all of your guys whine about problems. Why can't you just fly the airplane without b*tching? Quit looking at your watches and worrying about "duty time". Half of you out there have no clue how to compute your duty time. It seems as if your math skills are lacking. I also believe that most of you look for problems with your aircraft. Mx is not going to ask you to fly anything that may be unsafe. If they do, lets see some names on here regarding who it was and maybe those people need to leave. Just think of this scenario (which is pretty common)...everytime one of the Hawker 800xp guys decides to brake their airplane for some lame reason or claim that their fatigued after sitting in Mx for the past 2 days it costs the company money that could be given back in our paychecks. Look at the cost of a charter for a trip length of 2.3 hrs would be around 25k. Just that one charter would be an extra 26 dollars in every pilots paycheck if we only had to charter 1 flight every 2 weeks. If some people spend half of the effort that they spend in thinking on what to write up next, they may not be so tired and could take the load of the rest of us that actually do our job. By the way, they are hiring new pilots. They took the posting off because they have 14,000 already on file. And to what hotel you people stay in, does it really matter??? Who do you think you are??? I am sure you can handle the Holiday Inn every once in a while. Maybe they are just picking on you...I have not seen but one hotel that I could say would be sub par...They are more than likely putting you in the lower class hotel to help off-set the charter costs that you have caused the company??? Ever think of that???

^^^^^^COMPANY MAN^^^^^^

If something's broke, write it up. Isn't that what they beat into our brains from the time we were aviation n00bs? If it can be MEL'd and we can continue on, great! If it can't be MEL'd and the plane is grounded, oh well! Tell management to stop stroking your winkie so you can see how it really is around here.

 

[Live4flyng]

Lame?

everytime one of the Hawker 800xp guys decides to brake their airplane for some lame reason

Would tyring to prevent going off the end of a runway be a good enough reason to brake?

 

[flyr4hire]

Just wait Tonker

till you get more than one or two tours under your belt, ... its obvious that you have no idea. Actually waveoff probably has you nailed as a "company man" ...thinking that money saved on charter would go into the pilot's pockets is probable cause for a urinalysis.

 

[TONKER]

By the way...Not a Kool-Aid drinker

Dep676 As to Nahill in the Diamond, maybe you do not understand why we have owners to begin with. Remember the phrase time is money? That is why many of our owners buy into the program that eventually trickles down to feed your face. In reference to the cab vs. rental car...bring it to their attention if you believe it is cheaper...I am sure they would like to know...they may not always have all of the information available to them...You are right though, sometimes a rental car is much cheaper...

 

[Some guy]

Would tyring to prevent going off the end of a runway be a good enough reason to brake?

Not if your too "tyred"

 

[Dep676]

Dep676 As to Nahill in the Diamond, maybe you do not understand why we have owners to begin with. Remember the phrase time is money? That is why many of our owners buy into the program that eventually trickles down to feed your face. In reference to the cab vs. rental car...bring it to their attention if you believe it is cheaper...I am sure they would like to know...they may not always have all of the information available to them...You are right though, sometimes a rental car is much cheaper...

Yeah time is money. As far as our owners have some sort of business that they can write their share for. Well transporting Mr. Nahill around on our company plane so he does not have to move to Cleveland. Which actually cost us as employees money because I am pretty sure he does not own a share in the airplane. Oh yeah they are barely feeding my face too. The new pay scale that everyone would be happy with. Caused me not to get a raise until 2006.

I have and others have brought the rental car vs taxi to their attention more than once. The vivid memory I have about one specific time is. We were told they were watching the rental car budget. Well I case they are not watching the taxi budget then because they pi$$ away more money on taxis everyday. So bringing stuff to their attention does no good. They are going to do what they want and when they want. As long as they have the kool-aid bunch like you sticking up for them.

 

[JetCapt69]

...bring it to their attention if you believe it is cheaper...I am sure they would like to know...they may not always have all of the information available to them...You are right though, sometimes a rental car is much cheaper...

OCC has an SOP just like the pilots. The pilots are EXPECTED to adhere to the SOP, so why not OCC?

Our job is to take care of the passengers and operate our aircraft safely. Why DO YOU expect us to do OCC's job. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a 45 min cab ride is going to cost more than a rental car.

It doesn't take a PHD to figure out that a pilot needs time to eat or crew meals in general while working a 10 hour day with back to back trips.

KR used to offer the pilots a $1000 incentive for cost saving ideas. At least, then, we used to get some perk for saving the company money. I have submitted several cost saving ideas to the company. Do you really think they listen to the one? Do you really??

OCC is pre-buying charter to cover for maintenance down time, vacations, sick time, uncrewed aircraft etc. The daily rate (avg) I would estimate is around $100K per day, sometimes more, sometimes less. We don't have charter sell offs everyday, but more often than not.

You really don't have a clue if you think the company is going to reward you by saving a few dollars a month. Unless you are an SFO, which from your mentality, you are either an SFO or a new hire with little experience.

Either way, I would like to know how long you have been with this company, because unless you have been here for awhile and experienced the changes half of us have seen, you really shouldn't be spouting your mouth off.

 

[TONKER]

tired of complainers

JetCapt69 I cannot agree with you anymore in regards to the Taxi vs. rental car...However, in many places we position or travel from, rental cars are not an option due to either time constraints or inability to return the car. My question to you is have you ever been inside and actually sat down with a scheduler or a dispatcher to see how the OCC operation works? I cannot stand 2 face people like you...how about next time you call in to OCC you tell the dispatcher or logistic person you talk to that you think they do not know how to do their job and follow SOP's instead of being all friendly because you need something. See how far that gets you. I understand how it can be frustrating when we are out there humping it and not getting a crew meal. Like I said before, if you see something that needs to be looked into, pick up that nice blackberry the company gives us and call your dispatcher and maybe you just might get a meal. It does not hurt to ask. It is people like you that bring down the organization with your attitude. If not getting a crew meal is the worst thing that happens to you that day feel lucky. Now in response to the pre-buy charter costs, that is only done on peak travel days. It is not a matter of vacation, or uncrewed aircraft. The major problem is Mx and people that call fatigue because they stayed up late the night prior to their aircraft coming up out of Mx and to their suprise, it came up early and now you have a 5am departure...Sorry bud, no sympathy here. You are probably the same person that is out there flying the plane at redline burning an exponentially high amount of fuel and only gaining 2 minutes on your trip time. Trust me the company will give back to us if you just start to contribute. By the way, I have been around for a while to see the changes both good and bad...I do have one cost saving idea too...it is remove people like you that are known as liabilities and cost the company more and more money each day.

 

[Dep676]

TONKER

Are you running for office you sound just like a politician. You spin everything anyone throws your way. How about answering why Nahill is costing the company money by running back and forth in the Diamond. I am sure there are airlines that go between BOS and CLE. Probably even direct flights at that.

You are just pi$$ed because you got called on the carpet by some for being a "company man". Once again put the kool-aid down before you hurt yourself.

As far as talking to a scheduler that is almost impossible. They will not talk to you because they claim to be to busy. I can not fault dispatchers they are just messengers. They just relay the message between us and whoever needs the info. Then back to us from that person. I can say all of the dispatchers on the XP row are great.

 

[Diesel]

Have you guys ever thought about the liabilities of driving a rental car for the company? What if you wreck the car who pays for it? Who pays for your insurance rising? Who pays the ticket if you go through some hick town and the cop just wants to make quota?

Tonker- I'd say something but Dep pretty much shot you down.

 

[Dep676]

Have you guys ever thought about the liabilities of driving a rental car for the company? What if you wreck the car who pays for it? Who pays for your insurance rising? Who pays the ticket if you go through some hick town and the cop just wants to make quota?

Tonker- I'd say something but Dep pretty much shot you down.

To answer the question about insurance. They give us insurance cards to carry with us for that purpose. As far as a ticket I would say the person driving, if in the wrong should pay the fine.

 

[Diesel]

So your own personal insurance doesn't rise if you wreck the car? That's interesting you guys carry insurance from the company. That's why we at NJA have been fighting rental cars because they are piggybacking on our insurance.

As far as getting a ticket. Well you never know about a ticket. Could be your fault or the cops. So you have to pay the insurance increase from operating a vehicle for your company?

Our company has never stated what would happen in the above situation. Just "we'll take care of you." Nobody has ever shown any documentation how.

 

[JetCapt69]

Naive

JetCapt69 I cannot agree with you anymore in regards to the Taxi vs. rental car...However, in many places we position or travel from, rental cars are not an option due to either time constraints or inability to return the car. My question to you is have you ever been inside and actually sat down with a scheduler or a dispatcher to see how the OCC operation works? I cannot stand 2 face people like you...how about next time you call in to OCC you tell the dispatcher or logistic person you talk to that you think they do not know how to do their job and follow SOP's instead of being all friendly because you need something. See how far that gets you.

Tonker there are times that a rental car may not be available, but there is no room for the time constraint scenerio you pose. Each crewmember is not supposed to be scheduled for any flight activity for 2 hours after their planned airline arrival. This will afford each crewmember is in position prior to scheduling an owner leg or repo for an owner leg. However, if it comes down to push & shove, scheduling will bend this SOP and schedule anyway. This is fine, it saves company money, but if it disservices an owner, it is unacceptable.

In regards to office duty. I have had medical issues in the past that required my 8 days to be spent in OCC. I have seen first hand what goes on in the "pit". You are right, if you need a crew meal, call dispatch, they will get you some food, but as soon as you get off the phone they will refer to you as a "whining little b1tch". Mx gets PO'ed if you have an issue and will run to your program manager and squeal. If it is something that they "deem" that is not a major issue, you may be asked to carry it to scheduled maintenance.

Charter sell offs are a real issue. Everyday PAL, I have first hand knowledge of this from the front row. It is not only peak travel days, it is every day. If you want to know what one of the biggest expenses we incur is, its charter. Call the front row, call your PM or your check airman if you don't believe it. Call them and ask them what the charter costs are this week or last week.

I like Flight Options. It is a good job, but it used to be better. I understand how the economy, fuel prices, etc effect business, but our original management staff treated "us" pilots like an internal customer; with respect, understanding & professionalism.

Those days are dwindling. Communication is at an all time low. Our CEO doesn't communicate with us (last message Sept. 13th). You made a great point earlier, the BLACKBERRY is to improve communications. Bingo! Tell the boss that! If he can't take time to place a weekly announcement on the phone system, then maybe his secretary could leave us a BB message telling us that he just doesn't have time for us. He didn't have time to appear at the company picnic at the air show, so what do you expect.

This isn't anything new to the guys who are actually out there flying the line week after week. It is easy for you to sit in the OCC and sit on your high horse. You can get up and take a leak, get a cup of coffee, go to lunch or just stretch your legs anytime you want, then go home and sleep with your wife (boyfriend?) in your own bed.

Don't label the pilot group or myself as whiners, liabilities or any other pet name. We bust our @ss off everyday for this company because we like what we do. We (I) would like for everyone else in this company to start stepping up to the plate and doing their job. I for one and tired of doing everyone elses job, like explaining to the owner why we landed at an alternate due to bad weather and I'm sorry that owner services didn't call you in the past two hours to notify you of the change.

As many departments and personnel we have in OCC, this operation should be a fine tuned machine.

So, don't give me anymore of your 2 faced BS. I know more than you think.

 

[hawkercpt]

check...

the experation date on that insurance card in your wallet the company gave you before you get into a company sponsored rental.