Flight Options

[gunfyter]

LOL... You guys are gonna be more than ready to merge with us...

I used to question those long repos all the time. I kept getting the same answer...it's cheaper than a charter. Well, I guess most of the time it is. What really irritates me is when I do a 4hr repo(not common, but it does happen) to cover a Beechjet or Citation trip. I'd be willing to bet that with a little schedule shifting, I could have done a sub 2hr repo to cover a different trip, and somebody else closer to my trip start point could have covered that. When doing a Hawker trip, there's less flexibility since they can't go down...but when doing a Citation or Beechjet trip, there is a ton of flexibility there. The problem is usually that the row schedulers don't communicate well enough with one another to see a better solution.

I quit worrying about it, because none of my suggestions accomplished anything. When I see something really outrageous, I email my PM and Joe and let them know about it. I have gotten things changed a couple times by doing that. One instance was an ATL-SAF repo(wintertime, 100+kt headwind) for a Beechjet trip to the Dallas area. A buddy of mine in a Beechjet was in ABQ doing a repo to MCI to cover a Beechjet trip to Miami...neither of us had any planned trips later that day or the next. I suggested to scheduling that the trips be swapped, but they said no. I emailed a couple of PM's about it, and within 30 mins it had been changed so that they went to SAF and we went to MCI. We cut out 90 mins of repo time on the Beechjet, and 2hrs on the Hawker. In this situation, contacting certain people actually worked...but several other times it has fallen on deaf ears. Oh well...I just drive the limo, and go home on day 8.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

hmmmmmm

I am tired of hearing all of your guys whine about problems. Why can't you just fly the airplane without b*tching? Quit looking at your watches and worrying about "duty time". Half of you out there have no clue how to compute your duty time. It seems as if your math skills are lacking. I also believe that most of you look for problems with your aircraft. Mx is not going to ask you to fly anything that may be unsafe. If they do, lets see some names on here regarding who it was and maybe those people need to leave. Just think of this scenario (which is pretty common)...everytime one of the Hawker 800xp guys decides to brake their airplane for some lame reason or claim that their fatigued after sitting in Mx for the past 2 days it costs the company money that could be given back in our paychecks. Look at the cost of a charter for a trip length of 2.3 hrs would be around 25k. Just that one charter would be an extra 26 dollars in every pilots paycheck if we only had to charter 1 flight every 2 weeks. If some people spend half of the effort that they spend in thinking on what to write up next, they may not be so tired and could take the load of the rest of us that actually do our job. By the way, they are hiring new pilots. They took the posting off because they have 14,000 already on file. And to what hotel you people stay in, does it really matter??? Who do you think you are??? I am sure you can handle the Holiday Inn every once in a while. Maybe they are just picking on you...I have not seen but one hotel that I could say would be sub par...They are more than likely putting you in the lower class hotel to help off-set the charter costs that you have caused the company??? Ever think of that???

Wife? Yeaaaahhhhh...Interesting

 

[mxpilot2]

Methinks you smell a rat....that is some SERIOUSLY misguided thinking.

 

[skanza]

VOR, what's your point? Does it matter anyways?

I thinks she has some good points in that post that no one here will directly address.

 

[TONKER]

Alright, I took over my husband's FI acct yes. I did not read his previous posts as I didn't feel they applied to the questions that I have today. That was from 4 years ago... Do you really think that with time and age that opinions or situations do not change???

If you don't grow with age, then I feel bad for you.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Shut up...you were caught, face it...
F&H slugs opened up a dormant acct, no prob

 

[skanza]

^^^ See what I mean? ^^^

 

[TONKER]

Shut up...you were caught, face it...
F&H slugs opened up a dormant acct, no prob

YA know, ignorance is pretty unbecoming! Call it what you will, but you really are closed minded.

Have a Great Day!

 

[CA1900]

Whoa... Blast from the past! :laugh:



Tonker sounds just like the a-hole I used to work for as a flight instructor, who didn't like to use the local maintenance shop for his 100-hours. Why? Because they're "just looking for problems." He had us ferry across the state to a shady maintenance shop that would do an annual inspection on anything for $300. Right. It was barely an oil change and a signoff.

Found out later he was an Eastern scab; not surprising in the least!


And skanza, to address the "interesting points," since they're apparently still relevant four years later:

Quit looking at your watches and worrying about "duty time".

So asinine that words escape me.

I also believe that most of you look for problems with your aircraft.

That's what pilots are paid to do.

Mx is not going to ask you to fly anything that may be unsafe.

Riiiiiight.

And to what hotel you people stay in, does it really matter??? Who do you think you are???

Professional pilots who deserve living conditions on the road commensurate with that position. It's also a safety issue, as crews are better-rested in quality hotels versus crappy ones. A poor should be a last resort, not a cost-saving measure. And you wonder why fatigue calls increase? Try the Holiday Inn or even an Embassy Suites on a weekend and let me know how well you sleep.

If you think Tonker here has "interesting points," you're really out of touch.

 

[Galaxy]

Tonker...

If you are looking for help from the IBT. You are in the wrong place. The IBT will be more than happy to help you and answer all of your questions. If your husband is a member they will bend over backwards to assist you and your family.
Go to the website www.IBT1108.com
If you are who you say you are -you can get your answers there..
You can get the email addresses and phone numbers on that website and even log in if you are a member.

You said that your family was NOT one of the ones effected after the terminations. The union is currently helping those that do not have jobs anymore.

If you want to help your family you should tell your husband how important it is to be an active member in his union. Pay the dues and follow the directives by the union leaders.

Not sure why you came here for answers as it is like getting medical advice in a bar.

Your husband had some real distorted views from back in 04'. I hope he has changed his ways.

Jobs are not hard to come by these days in this industry especially finding an improvement over FLOPS. If you are fearing the worst-I suggest him finding a better job now.

On the other side..... If you are the TROLL..
I can only guess we will be hearing a lot more from you and the mgt legal team at F & H.

 

[DObyDEFAULT]

2012 Initiative Update

By 2012 Flight Options will be Pilot-Free

We will continue to offer the best service and latetst aircraft to wealthy elite who fly corporate jets and are willing to pay gobs of money for it.

Our New Motto: World Class Service for an Out of This World PRICE!

No Pilots, No HASSLES!!!


March On FLOPS Faithful as I destroy this company one employee at a time

Thank You

Mike S.

 

[gunfyter]

What is the company doing to assist ALL the employees they had to let go due to the tough economy?

Anything?

 

[ProFracPilot]

YA know, ignorance is pretty unbecoming! Call it what you will, but you really are closed minded.

If you continue to post here and not seek the answers from those who can really provide them, then it is obvious that you're a tool. In the interim, you have earned the coveted "ignore" function along with your cubicle mate, B19.

 

[ProFracPilot]

What is the company doing to assist ALL the employees they had to let go due to the tough economy?

Anything?

I believe your question to be rhetorical, GF. But in case the answer is not obvious to some, I'll provide it: The company is doing NOTHING to assist the fired employees.

 

[TONKER]

If you continue to post here and not seek the answers from those who can really provide them, then it is obvious that you're a tool. In the interim, you have earned the coveted "ignore" function along with your cubicle mate, B19.

I was seeking answers and was being bashed or called a TROLL, or told I was phishing, or a part of mgmt, or F & H, and now a tool.... any thing but getting answers.

There have been several people that have offered insight that I was looking for and I am grateful to them. As for the rest, personally the name calling is ignorant and not beneficial at all.

Thank you Galaxy... That really was what I was initially looking for. I was more interested in people's personal experiences with the Union (not Medical advice in a bar, nice analogy though).

I know the intentions of the Union are great; better pay, better hotels, less fatigue, safer conditions. Some on here have posted many ways that the Union has helped, and when you haven't personally needed to rely on the Union it is difficult to understand the full spectrum.

The best way to understand, how the negotiations work, better is to hear first hand from those that have been through this. This time we were safe.... who knows what the future has in store.

I am sorry that there is so much animosity on these posts, people seem to be so full of hate towards Flops *understandable*, even the Union from some (with his/her personal experiences), and mostly towards each other *I don't get it*, belief of conspiracy theories runs ramped, all of which I have not experienced either so maybe I have a more difficult time understanding.

I was not trying to step on toes or cause a rise from any one....

So thank you to those that really were trying to help and not immediately judge me.

 

[gunfyter]

I believe your question to be rhetorical, GF. But in case the answer is not obvious to some, I'll provide it: The company is doing NOTHING to assist the fired employees.

Yes it was.

To illustrate:

Who is responsible for firing employees?

Who will attempt to assist these employees and represent their interests?

How then, can anyone be on the Fence?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Yes it was.

To illustrate:

Who is responsible for firing employees?

Do tell... the management made the decisions, cut the employee work force back. Was it the economy, was it the business plan, was it that the company was stagnated due to ongoing negotiations with the union? (Like NJ was) Why don't you explain?

Who will attempt to assist these employees and represent their interests?

If you understand anything about business, the company can't even if they wanted to as they would be subject to lawsuits. It's no different than the information they can release when contacted by future employers. PRIA helps a lot with that because it mandates what information can be shared. But when ties are cut, the company is always handcuffed by the legal community.


How then, can anyone be on the Fence?

We finally agree. I don't see how anybody could put their employer and co-workers at risk by bringing a union on the property.

The union didn't help, did it? 200 employees. What a shame.

 

[cougar12]

Tonker

Tonker
You say you and your husband are on the fence! ? I don't understand why. Many of those that were terminated were my Friends and I know them personally because I flew with them. In my opinion, they were unjustly terminated for doing their job.
The only help they are receiving is from the union and the generosity of some wonderful people at NetJets who have unselfishly donated their precious time and money to assist those affected. I can only dream that someday Flight Option pilots will show the same solidarity and compassion.
From your posts I can only conclude that MGMT has accomplished exactly what the set out to do. Install fear in the remaining workforce. Pilots will wait till the end of the day after completion of their trips to write up a problem with the plane, if they write it up at. All out of fear. I don't think this is a safe way to run an operation. Do you? As far as maintenance, they are operating in fear for their jobs too and do what they are told. I have seen it with my own eyes.
My suggestion, get off the fence and support the union! But, If you fell you need more information call a member of the MEC and ask them your questions personally. I think you will be impressed as to their honesty and commitment to you and your husbands interests.

 

[brokeflyer]

The union didn't help, did it? 200 employees. What a shame.

yeah those ba$tards......im glad 1108 is gonna be gone at NJ.......

all the bad nasty things they did....i can't believe i got a raise that big, basing and better work rules....suxs....i always liked the company taking all the profits from my hard work and keeping it. I liked gettin butt f*cked by management every week.....



f*ckers......

 

[Galaxy]

I was seeking answers and was being bashed or called a TROLL, or told I was phishing, or a part of mgmt, or F & H, and now a tool.... any thing but getting answers.
All of that was due to the reoccurance of your account and the history that surrounds it. Look back into your accounts previous posts--then you will understand.

There have been several people that have offered insight that I was looking for and I am grateful to them. As for the rest, personally the name calling is ignorant and not beneficial at all.

Thank you Galaxy... That really was what I was initially looking for. I was more interested in people's personal experiences with the Union (not Medical advice in a bar, nice analogy though). You're Welcome-
Personal experience with unions...
The question should posed as experience with unions and management. One should ask why is there even a union there? You said you wanted to do your own research.. Search for Mike S Sheeringa and his former positions. Along with His other airline buds sitiing in CGF. I don't need to type it all here..you can read all the FLOPS posts for yourself.
Then ask a NetJets Pilot about unions and what they have done. It all comes done to does mgt want to work with its employees to create a solid profitable company?

I know the intentions of the Union are great; better pay, better hotels, less fatigue, safer conditions. Some on here have posted many ways that the Union has helped, and when you haven't personally needed to rely on the Union it is difficult to understand the full spectrum.
Again..All this info is found on the IBT1108 website. Have your husband log on and you both can read all the communication from the leadership to the members.
You should not personally rely on the union for anything other than representation. Their job is to negotiate a contract. If a contract is agreed upon then they will have more time for other things like family assistance. I feel as the union really stepped up to the plate helping the pilots who were fired.-Kudos to you IBT1108!

The best way to understand, how the negotiations work, better is to hear first hand from those that have been through this. This time we were safe.... who knows what the future has in store.
Again... All that is in the IBT1108 website--not here

I am sorry that there is so much animosity on these posts, people seem to be so full of hate towards Flops *understandable*, even the Union from some (with his/her personal experiences), and mostly towards each other *I don't get it*, belief of conspiracy theories runs ramped, all of which I have not experienced either so maybe I have a more difficult time understanding.
Again...the history of your account speaks for itself--read it then think of the 70 that just got fired. You would have more credibility if you just opened your own account. The FLOPS and other pilots are tired of the BS. Flops needs to settle an industry standard contract or close the doors. It will help your family out in the long run..
I was not trying to step on toes or cause a rise from any one.... Once again...It is the account history-you can't erase it and we all are judged by our past in everything from legal matters to work and just life in general..hence."once a cheat...always a cheat.."-You wouldn't let a known sex offender watch your kids would you? Even though it is in his/her past.

So thank you to those that really were trying to help and not immediately judge me.

I suggest you stop using that account and get your own. Although there is not any real information here-so why bother?
Get online at the ibt1108 website and do your research there. Get paid up in your husbands dues and get plugged into the union and volunteer for something.
We all will be glad to help you and your family out over there.
You can't hide behind fake names and anonomous addresses there so--I will see YOU "On the other side of the fence".

 

[AeroBoy]

This time we were safe.... who knows what the future has in store.

100% pure FUD.

 

[Galaxy]

Aeroboy-
You seem to know who B19 is...spill it
If you know who tonker is too..spill it

 

[brokeflyer]

Aeroboy-
You seem to know who B19 is...spill it
If you know who tonker is too..spill it

nobody cares who they are

 

[netjetwife]

Alright, I took over my husband's FI acct yes. Why not just explain that right up front? It would have given you more credibility and would have been the right thing to do. I did not read his previous posts as I didn't feel they applied to the questions that I have today. As the same situation is still very much an issue they do apply, as you can tell from the response of the pilots posting here. That was from 4 years ago... So not exactly a "newbie", huh? Do you really think that with time and age that opinions or situations do not change??? If you don't grow with age, then I feel bad for you.

But you didn't indicate that your opinions as a couple have changed and you belittled the Union supporters in your first post as a wife. Considering that, it is quite unfair of you to chastise those who responded with understandable skepticism. BTW, you haven't taken me up on my offer to help, yet you have complained that you aren't getting help.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I suggest you stop using that account and get your own.

This is so key because "she" admitted right here on the board that she is not the account holder, so doesn't that admission go against board rules and require account suspension until the account holder can be verified? I know I wouldn't want someone else (even a spouse) speaking for me on "my" account.....
Mods? We have a troll here on aisle TONKER and SKANZA....

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Archiving Tonker's post in case it decides to edit/delete

Archiving Tonker's post in case it decides to edit/delete

Alright, I took over my husband's FI acct yes. I did not read his previous posts as I didn't feel they applied to the questions that I have today. That was from 4 years ago... Do you really think that with time and age that opinions or situations do not change???

If you don't grow with age, then I feel bad for you.

This is so key because "she" admitted right here on the board that she is not the account holder, so doesn't that admission go against board rules and require account suspension until the account holder can be verified? I know I wouldn't want someone else (even a spouse) speaking for me on "my" account.....
Mods? We have a troll here on aisle TONKER and SKANZA....

 

[TONKER]

I will tell ya what, IF I really wanted the immature juvenile, underdog mindset that this board apparently shares I would have played a game of Monopoly with my kids... Archive away.

Nowhere was I derogatory to the Union in my initial post or any following, I said this BOARD was a High School Clique with all the judgments and criticism passed and all (*save a few people, that truly seem genuine*) have done nothing for your age, maturity level, or honest devotion to the Union other than bashing! It appears misery enjoys company and apparently that is why you all get together here (union or non-union).

I am not going to allow myself to be bullied by people that are doing nothing but A$$uming my identity, my intentions, or genuinely honest questions, and trying to butcher all of the above. If I want further assistance I will seek it outside of this site and speak to a human so that they see an individual and will answer legit questions with out the hassle. When they can look me in the eye and know how genuine I am, apparently that is the only way I can get honest answers with out all of the back handed comments.

Yet again, NOT derogatory to the Union... just to the individuals that are so condescending and higher up than I will ever choose to personally go. I prefer to stay grounded and real even on a bulletin board!

Also, there is a difference between skepticism and just down right bullying as done by some.

I will clarify again: NOT B19 or his Wife whom I learned of this morning…. (Sorry not reading through 2 mil postings on this thing to understand and personally know everyone).

 

[dime line]

Yo DA19
Funny no union.....bammmmmm....200 FIRED
Funny Union....bmmmmmmmm.......70 FIRED

So what is the difference

Looks to me like UNION wins only 70 vs 200

Hmmmm How does this work?


And Tonker, you can't come on this PILOT board and after 14 whole posts not expect some PILOTS (myself included) on here to be curious about your motovations. YOU need to do your homework, if you husband is a pilot, he has to have most answers that you need, and if he doesn't he should know where and how to get them.


I

will clarify again: NOT B19 or his Wife whom I learned of this morning…. (Sorry not reading through 2 mil postings on this thing to understand and personally know everyone).

This is where I think your wrong, YOU need to read just 5 posts of B19 (Any 5 will do they are all the same) and reread your post that I came back to you on, and you might understand why I think your fishing.

 

[netjetwife]

I will tell ya what, IF I really wanted the immature juvenile, underdog mindset that this board apparently shares I would have played a game of Monopoly with my kids... Archive away. Nowhere was I derogatory to the Union in my initial post or any following, I said this BOARD was a High School Clique .... What you actually posted was: "Now I am unaware of Unions and the power that they may or may not hold, the way they may or may not be able to help, the purpose of the dues paid or not paid, but of all the posts that I have personally read it sounds much more like a High School Clique than anything else". The Union was the subject of your statement. I think that accounts for the attitude you encountered from some posters. Contract discussions are a serious topic, so either way it was rather offensive. It appears misery enjoys company and apparently that is why you all get together here (union or non-union). Hint: That's pretty rude, too. :erm: Correction: most gather in this online community to discuss current events in the frac industry and to offer encouragement to the Options folks as they fight for a fair contract. Maybe you missed my earlier questions? So what do you and your husband think of the contract battle at Options? Is he for professional compensation and fair work rules or does he prefer the status quo? That's a gut reaction that doesn't require research. For example, I knew that it was plain wrong that my husband's NJ wages (prior to the 2005 contract) qualified our kids for the "poor family" lunch price at their public school. The secretary was shocked that a professional pilot made so little he qualified for govt assistance. Her jaw hit the counter when I told her we had NJ friends feeding their kids with WIC. I appreciated the moral support I got here during that rough time and I'm happy to return the favor. BTW, NJA pilots aren't miserable; they're very satisfied with their contract, as they've told you. The Options pilots have good reason to be upset and it's surprising that you're not. Is your husband a line pilot there? If so, what do you think of his salary compared to that of the NJ and CS pilots?
I am not going to allow myself to be bullied by people that are doing nothing but A$$uming my identity, my intentions, or genuinely honest questions, and trying to butcher all of the above. This is a tough place for a female sometimes, but , in all fairness, your own comments haven't helped, either. If I want further assistance I will seek it outside of this site and speak to a human so that they see an individual and will answer legit questions with out the hassle. Good idea! In fact, I had already suggested that in an earlier post. I'm standing by to make the arrangements for you to speak to a Union leader as soon as you PM me. It has been verified that I can do that for you and my husband is used to me passing on requests for info. When they can look me in the eye and know how genuine I am, apparently that is the only way I can get honest answers with out all of the back handed comments. I made an honest effort to help you and it was totally ignored. I've tried to have an exchange with you but you aren't responding in spite of telling us you welcome the insight of someone who has been thru contract negotiations. I'm an excellent source as my experience (above) shows.
Yet again, NOT derogatory to the Union... just to the individuals that are so condescending and higher up than I will ever choose to personally go. I prefer to stay grounded and real even on a bulletin board! You're not alone in that. The majority of us (especially underpaid pilots) have very real discussions about the current situation. Some posting here have literally been grounded when they much prefer to be flying. When you consider that fact it is understandable that patience is wearing thin among those grappling with that reality.

Also, there is a difference between skepticism and just down right bullying as done by some. It is a good idea to take the overall view here instead of focusing on individual posts. Less of an anti-union tone when asking Union folks for explanations (you should already have) is more productive too, especially given your late effort at becoming educated on the critical matter of an Option pilot's paycheck and QOL on the job.

I will clarify again: NOT B19 or his Wife whom I learned of this morning…. (Sorry not reading through 2 mil postings on this thing to understand and personally know everyone).

We didn't ask you to. We took your word for it when you said that you had "read every post on FLOPS since word of the layoffs has come". Accordingly, you should have been aware that B19 constantly bashes the Union and praises management even after they fired pilots for being professionals. To consider it a compliment to be called his wife (thus sharing his hatred of unions) sent a clear message to the Options pilots who are bombarded by the Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD) he works hard to instill in those who have the guts and integrity to stand up for their right to work under a contract and operate in a safe, professional work atmosphere.

My offer still stands to put you in touch with an 1108 leader who can help you understand the situation the pilots are facing at FlightOps and how the Union is standing up for their rights. In the meantime, have your husband ask around about the industry standard and take a look at how far behind the Options pilots are. After that eye-opening jolt feel free to come back and express your disgust. Misery loves company you know... NJW