Flight Options

[FR8DOG777]

Management by FEAR! I know it was on the tip of your tongue. It's the only way they know.

 

[cldsfr79]

NJ perhaps is looking to sale Gulfstreams in large numbers ...

Yeah that's all NJ needs. More of our planes being sold to a competitor so they can turn around, and take our customers by selling their product at bargain basement prices

Want NJ should do with their old planes is take them to the desert and chop them up.

 

[realityman]

Yeah that's all NJ needs. More of our planes being sold to a competitor so they can turn around, and take our customers by selling their product at bargain basement prices

Want NJ should do with their old planes is take them to the desert and chop them up.

Except they aren't NJ's planes. They belong to our clients. In order to chop them up, we'd have to buy them back. Once we own them, chopping them up would be a significant loss to NJ's instead of selling them or trading them in.

And we still lose the client to someone else who is offering a Gulfstream product (if that client is hell-bent on staying in a gulfstream).

 

[gret]

Except they aren't NJ's planes. They belong to our clients. In order to chop them up, we'd have to buy them back. Once we own them, chopping them up would be a significant loss to NJ's instead of selling them or trading them in.

And we still lose the client to someone else who is offering a Gulfstream product (if that client is hell-bent on staying in a gulfstream).

You're right on every count...NJ eventually does have to buy them back when the owner "puts" it at the end of the contract. The end result is the same...NJ isn't going to mothball the aircraft and will dump the aircraft as soon as possible.

 

[onetimer]

O great, another thread taken over by NJ!

 

[NJAowner]

My bet is that FO starts flying Gs. I do not think they will get the EMB-500. It is too close to the Citation X. FO has a good program going with its revamped Citations Xs. FO is trying very hard not to have too many fleet types. In the end it will actually have what NJ is trying to get too (but won't get to in the near future) -- just 4 types -- small and inexpensive (400XP/400XT), Phenom 300, Citation X and a G/Legacy. In my opinion, a fractional should not have more than 4 or 5 types -- then the inefficiencies start to kill them.

(For example to fly 8 +/- pax, does NJ really need the Hawker 800, Sovereign, X, G200 and DA-2000?)

 

[CALRepublic]

I'm going with an Embraer product, they're the least expensive product out there and Flt ops has a good relationship with them. Also Embraer is desperate for a launch Legay customer.

When is FLOPS suppose to announce "the big news"?

Hell now I'm curious

 

[gunfyter]

I vote Gulfstream ... see how many Gulfstream owners switch to FLOPS to stay in that product

 

[gutshotdraw]

I vote Gulfstream ... see how many Gulfstream owners switch to FLOPS to stay in that product

More than a few....fewer than a lot.

 

[Dingo221]

G4 s are my bet, but I might not be well informed.
What is coming after is what I want to know about!
What about a mid size?
The 500 nah, the 450 ? may be but in 2 or 3 years ! not so sure..

 

[jetwash]

The legacys are being sold off in expectation of another large cabin type.
They just moved 7 SIC's out of the Legacy program.

With an order for 50 Phenoms and options for another 50. I can see the options converted for the EMB500 as the new super mid size aircraft. To replace both the Hawker and citation X.

The citations X's will be getting old in a few short years and will need to be replaced with something new. Seeing as management is very pleased with the Phenom 300, it will not be much of a jump for the EMB 500.

 

[clickclickboom]

OLD? Flops ran 1980 falcons and 1985 citation 3's the x is brand new by flops standards

The only big announcement should be restoration of benefits

 

[johnsonrod]

Great points about the Gulfstreams and the large-cabin replacement. I agree that some Netjets customers might want to stay in them as they depart the Netjets fleet if the price is right. FO already has experience with G-Whizzes and I've heard the boss is a GIV fan. That actually sounds plausible with many older GIVs on the market that could be refurbed.

So, perhaps we see the Legacies leave and a comparable number of older/refurbed GIVSPs arrive with the EMB-500/450 possibly replacing the X and Hawker fleets. Given the lack of large-scale orders for the EMB-500 and the fact that it is technologically differentiated from the more common CL300, I am betting Embraer will want to do a deal to get them into the mainstream and in front of potential customers. Best way to do that is via a fractional. FO has had good experience with the Phenom 300 market entry and it has played that card right from a marketing standpoint.

Pure speculation (and I could be completely wrong), but I could see a highly-capable future fleet comprised of:

Beechjet 400XT, Phenom 300, EMB 500/450, GIVSP

The EMB 500 could compete well with the CL300 and G200s from both a cabin and performance standpoint and handle West Coast to Hawaii:

http://embraerexecutivejets.com/en-US/jets/legacy-500/Pages/performance.aspx

I think the CL300 has a bigger cabin, but the difference is not huge:

http://embraerexecutivejets.com/en-US/jets/legacy-500/Pages/design.aspx

At a big order discount for 20-30 aircraft, who knows, FO could actually make some money despite offering lower prices that Flexjet, Netjets and XOJet CL300 rates. Newer technology, comfortable long-range cabin and very competitive rates (with discount pricing for big Embraer order) could help sell the airplane. Again, pure speculation. That said, having flown an Embraer aircraft for many years (my clunky ERJ), I'd love to see the EMB 500 do well in the market.

When is the next big NBAA airshow when this type of announcement "could" be made?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Great points about the Gulfstreams and the large-cabin replacement. I agree that some Netjets customers might want to stay in them as they depart the Netjets fleet if the price is right. FO already has experience with G-Whizzes and I've heard the boss is a GIV fan. That actually sounds plausible with many older GIVs on the market that could be refurbed.

So, perhaps we see the Legacies leave and a comparable number of older/refurbed GIVSPs arrive with the EMB-500/450 possibly replacing the X and Hawker fleets. Given the lack of large-scale orders for the EMB-500 and the fact that it is technologically differentiated from the more common CL300, I am betting Embraer will want to do a deal to get them into the mainstream and in front of potential customers. Best way to do that is via a fractional. FO has had good experience with the Phenom 300 market entry and it has played that card right from a marketing standpoint.

Pure speculation (and I could be completely wrong), but I could see a highly-capable future fleet comprised of:

Beechjet 400XT, Phenom 300, EMB 500/450, GIVSP

The EMB 500 could compete well with the CL300 and G200s from both a cabin and performance standpoint and handle West Coast to Hawaii:

http://embraerexecutivejets.com/en-US/jets/legacy-500/Pages/performance.aspx

I think the CL300 has a bigger cabin, but the difference is not huge:

http://embraerexecutivejets.com/en-US/jets/legacy-500/Pages/design.aspx

At a big order discount for 20-30 aircraft, who knows, FO could actually make some money despite offering lower prices that Flexjet, Netjets and XOJet CL300 rates. Newer technology, comfortable long-range cabin and very competitive rates (with discount pricing for big Embraer order) could help sell the airplane. Again, pure speculation. That said, having flown an Embraer aircraft for many years (my clunky ERJ), I'd love to see the EMB 500 do well in the market.

When is the next big NBAA airshow when this type of announcement "could" be made?

NBAA is in October.

 

[Heavy Set]

I'd like to see Flight Options fly EMB 500s as well. I agree that operating the CL300 is no longer an "advantage" for the fractionals. I see frax and charter CL300s everywhere I go. So, to be different, the EMB-500 would make sense and start an entirely new conversation with prospects about technology. The new Embraer has a nice design and I like the new FBW and ProLine Fusion up front. That said, I am a very happy CL300 driver myself! Look forward to checking out the new Embraer when it eventually gets to market for my own comparison.