Flight Options Union Drive Strengthening

[cosmotheassman]

People that want unions, well, need unions.... Ponder that thought...

 

[Phoenix]

Bring it


Well runner as I said I truly do welcome you to do a side by side comparison of what the TA gives the NJ pilots vs. what the Options pilots have. Bring that back with you and we will discuss how you find a Options pilot benefits with out a contract. I have no illusion that a union and a contract will be a cure all or make Options a utopia in which to work. I do believe that it will make it a much better place for me and future pilots at Options to earn a living.

As far as ratification goes my guess is it will pass by 75% or better.


Phoenix
CONTRACT ASAP

....blah....blah...blah...


that's the spirit Phoenix...a union will save you...

Netjets gets a TA, that's not even ratifed yet, and all the world is good...


...you are WAY behind on your current events as it pertains to union representation, and how good it's been for employee groups as of late....

but that's ok....

...you belive what you want to believe...

I'll give you the benefit that you're simply ignorant....


night night

 

[ultrarunner]

Well Runner,

I guess he should just cast his fate to the hands of management...

"And then the Vulture eats you..."

You should recognize that as an Ultra-marathoner

I do.


I just haven't seen many examples in the last couple of years that leads me down the path that the union is going to help my cause.

 

[slowjet]

union card

Where can I get a card to send in?

 

[Phoenix]

Card

Where can I get a card to send in?

Send me an email at [email protected] with your name, address, and phone # and I'll get you some in the mail ASAP. Or you can register on the IBT 1108 Options Pilots Message Board http://www.ibt1108.org/foasap.html and down load a card from the site.

Thanks

Phoenix
CONTRACT ASAP

 

[Phoenix]

I do.


I just haven't seen many examples in the last couple of years that leads me down the path that the union is going to help my cause.

Then you have not done what I suggested regarding the TA. Read It. After you have done this tell me where a Options pilot is better off then he would be with the NJ TA.

Phoenix
CONTRACT ASAP

 

[waka]

People that want unions, well, need unions.... Ponder that thought...

Really?? Nothing gets past you!

Now you ponder that one Socrates.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

Then you have not done what I suggested regarding the TA. Read It. After you have done this tell me where a Options pilot is better off then he would be with the NJ TA.

Phoenix
CONTRACT ASAP

He won't read it. Even if he DID read it, he would still bitch about _____. (fill in the blank) For he is truly "ignorant." (as he referred to you in an earlier post) Just let him lie in his own pile of dung...he likes it there, warm and comfortable, softly mumbling to himself...blah blah blah.

 

[cosmotheassman]

Hey Waka!

I meant its people that probably should be fired can't be because of a union; therefore, they need the union to keep their jobs. I'm not totally against a union but, they can be counterproductive.

 

[DX Rick]

People that want unions, well, need unions.... Ponder that thought...

Couldn't agree more.

 

[futurepizzaguy]

Then you have not done what I suggested regarding the TA. Read It. After you have done this tell me where a Options pilot is better off then he would be with the NJ TA.

Phoenix
CONTRACT ASAP

Hey Phoenix,

I can think of many who won't ever send in the card....An SFO, Check Airman, Cleveland Domicile pay. Paying 2% a pay period plus a pay cut isn't too attractive to quite a few. Also for you if you really are an original 7 yr Options guy...can't understand the appeal either.

 

[Phoenix]

Hey Phoenix,

I can think of many who won't ever send in the card....An SFO, Check Airman, Cleveland Domicile pay. Paying 2% a pay period plus a pay cut isn't too attractive to quite a few. Also for you if you really are an original 7 yr Options guy...can't understand the appeal either.

I'm not really sure I understand your post but I'll give it a shot.

I don't expect all of our pilots to be supporters of a contract we don't need all of them only 50% +1. The groups you mention are among the ones I do not expect to largely be supporters. Fortunately they are a very small percentage of the entire pilot group. And just to keep things in a clear prospective, many of our IP's and CA's are supporters of a contract and especially one that comes close or surpasses the NJ TA. These guys and gals reduce the non supporter management group even more. All of that said these opposing pilots are for the most part opposed to a union because they are told to be that way by the company not because of some deep convection. The management/pilot that is a free thinker, believe it or not we have some, has the ability to consider the pros and cons of what a contract will deliver to them and the rest of the pilots and make a decision based on that free thought. So they as a group are not a loss cause and are worth the effort to educate.

The other group that is larger, is the group that I came from and are the pilots that for what ever reason are opposed to a union in general or the BIT. These objections fall largely along philosophical lines and are much harder to deal with then the guys spewing the company line. Many of these pilots will never see the advantages of a contract no matter how it would benefit them. The best we can do is give them the opportunity to see the information they need to see and hope that in a number of them it will take root, grow and eventually result in a signed card.

The post that I put here specifically refers to what a reasonable person can and should do to consider the benefits of a contract. Read the NJ TA chapter and verse, compare what the TA provides to the NJ pilots to what the Options pilot have for the same chapter and verse. In my opinion a reasonable person will come to the conclusion that even with the 2% dues you mention a Options pilot will be far better off with a contract like the NJ TA then with out. If after taking the time to read and understand the TA you still do not see a huge benefit to the Options pilot then we probably will not come to agreement and should just shake hands and walk away.

I am a original Options pilot and have watched the company go through many changes. It has been the changes that have taken me to the point that I no longer trust management to deal with me and my employment in a fair and honorable way. This distrust for our current and any future management necessitated that I put my trust in a employment contract that will make management legally accountable. A contract/union will not fix all of our problems, anyone that believes that is smoking to much of that union stuff, but it will solves most of them. A contract/union will protect the lazy and incompetent to a certain extent, a very minute portion of our group, but it will also protect the rest of us as well when we find ourselves at odds with management.

A contract or a union is not the perfect answer but the we don't live in a perfect world.


Phoenix
CONTRACT ASAP

 

[dime line]

"I meant its people that probably should be fired can't be because of a union; therefore, they need the union to keep their jobs. I'm not totally against a union but, they can be counterproductive."

But wait we have people here that can't be fired if they tried ( and without a union), hell, one that comes to mind were the pilots of the Legacy that ran into another one, and that same pilot that got all of those people sick on another Legacy flight.

And John Topliff who was let go after the the Fab 5 hearings only to be replaced by the same guy that he replaced, who was fired from that position because pilots didn't want to fly under him. Now he is our large cabin PM

And you talk of counterproductive, well how is FO being productive with reguard to any of their employees (occ, scheduling, and pilots)

 

[Phoenix]

"I meant its people that probably should be fired can't be because of a union; therefore, they need the union to keep their jobs. I'm not totally against a union but, they can be counterproductive."

But wait we have people here that can't be fired if they tried ( and without a union), hell, one that comes to mind were the pilots of the Legacy that ran into another one, and that same pilot that got all of those people sick on another Legacy flight.

And John Topliff who was let go after the the Fab 5 hearings only to be replaced by the same guy that he replaced, who was fired from that position because pilots didn't want to fly under him. Now he is our large cabin PM

And you talk of counterproductive, well how is FO being productive with reguard to any of their employees (occ, scheduling, and pilots)

Can't argue with logic like that.

Phoenix
CONTRACT ASAP

 

[SafetyTheSeat]

Yeah, unionize Flight Options. This union has done such wonderful things for NJA; and not to mention, in record breaking time...

You are right!!!!

11 months from the start of our own LOCAL UNION for NETJET Pilots and other Fractional Pilots that want to join:



IBT Local 1108

Thanks for the hard work Brothers and Sisters....

Did I mention my pay increased from 67K to 114K.......