Flight Options Response To The Pilots Regarding Industrywide Pay Raises

[Bank-n-Yank]

Hey Aspen.... the professional way to respond to a post that you do not agree with would have been to exercise some tact.

PM me in the future and I will attempt to give you a few pointers.

Happy Turkey Day.

 

[1po'dpilot]

Maybe Aspen is Bob Tyler... hmmm... a post like that makes me wonder.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

I have watched your posts for a year now and bascially your an assh*le that whines about everything. The airlines are full of little dribbles like you. Why don't you just take a hike and quit as nothing will ever satisfy your gian ego, much less your career path. Sorry SOB for sure!

Happy thanksgiving Asspen

 

[jetwash]

Bob Tyler is a pretty darn good guy. Give him a chance and see if things don't get better. He left a very good job to come over there and if he had any faults in his past employment, it was that he actually cared about the pilots who worked for him. Having said that if a union is what you need to put your house in order, so be it, but it should not reflect on the person in this case.

Over the past few years I have seen many great pilot /managers try to make things better and in the end they all quit and found other jobs. That is why nobody is putting any trust in him. He will no doubt run into the same problems as the other and quit. You might say as he did to give him a chance, well trust is something that has to be earned. So until he does something to earn our trust he is just another of the management yes men.

 

[RNObased]

Actually you are incorrect. Do you think NJA is profitable? No

Sir, you are mis-informed. Get your facts straight, then post. NJA is profitable, and probably much more so then is posted in the Berkshire-Hathaway stock holders report. But if you are into some light reading, start there there and you will see that you are WRONG. Facts first, post second.

 

[RNObased]

Bob Tyler is a pretty darn good guy. Give him a chance and see if things don't get better. He left a very good job to come over there and if he had any faults in his past employment, it was that he actually cared about the pilots who worked for him. Having said that if a union is what you need to put your house in order, so be it, but it should not reflect on the person in this case.

Aspen,
I don't know you or know about you, all I can say is set down the kool-aid. The same thing was said about Bill Boisture when he came to NJA. It didn't take long for the pilots to figure out who's side he was on. It sure as heck wasn't the pilots. Boiusture came to Netjets from places that were suppose to be great jobs. Now the real story is why he left there is to come to NJA. Well we will just say that truth is stranger then ficton.....

Basically don't believe the hype..........

Now if you decide to reponsed to me like you did other professionals who told you the same exact thing I'm telling you. Then all I can say is that you are a litte defensive and need to look at why you are such. It is you, not us...........

 

[Spooky 1]

So sorry guys. Not my usual style of writing. I think someone spiked the turkey gravey!

 

[AcroChik]

A Bit About BRK Financials

Berkshire Hathaway is famous throughout the accounting / auditing industry for scrupulously adhering to the most stringent financial disclosure standards, and for doing it in the most transparent way possible. At the front of any BRK report, whether it be an annual 10K, a quarterly, etc, you will find a plain-English language letter from Buffet (actually written by him), laying out the finer points of what's contained in the pages and pages of little print at the back of the book.

Passage of the Sarbanes Oxley Act, makes the CEO of a company personally liable for criminal charges should any fraud be uncovered in SEC filings. CEOs actually sign, in pen, and submit the signed original to the SEC, the regulators.

Even now, though, Securities and Exchange Commission regulations permit lots of obscure and hard to trace footnotes and fudges that are absent from BRK financial reporting, which is done according the the most conservative Generally Agreed Accounting Standards (GAAP), and and Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) recommentadions.

Specifically for this reason, NJA folks had a very good opportunity to look deep into the heart of the business and make an excellent case for long-deserved and future pay increases. I'm very glad they were successful ~ though no doubt more was deserved.

Company share price is a good indicator of investor confidence in a company's current and future financial condition as revealed by it's financial statements. Take a look at the current Berkshire share price, and its history of growth.

Flame if you want, but this is simply the facts.

And, no, I don't work for them, but make most of my income reading and commenting on SEC filings, both good and bad.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

It's clear as mud

Perhaps you can define the difference between the "net income" they report and "operating income", defining it as BRK does (which would be difficult unless you work in BRK's financial reporting group), and carve out the part associated with FlightSafety form BRK's "Flight Services" discussion.

NetJets' financial performance as stated in the 10Q, and/or 10K footnotes is no clearer than any of the other three major fractionals. They lump NJ and FS into reporting as Flight Services deliberately for competitive reasons, and while many would argue markets tend to be rational over the long term in determining a share price, don't think that over the short term investors won't continue to overlook the drag NetJets places on Flight Services.

 

[miles otoole]

Perhaps you can define the difference between the "net income" they report and "operating income", defining it as BRK does (which would be difficult unless you work in BRK's financial reporting group), and carve out the part associated with FlightSafety form BRK's "Flight Services" discussion.

NetJets' financial performance as stated in the 10Q, and/or 10K footnotes is no clearer than any of the other three major fractionals. They lump NJ and FS into reporting as Flight Services deliberately for competitive reasons, and while many would argue markets tend to be rational over the long term in determining a share price, don't think that over the short term investors won't continue to overlook the drag NetJets places on Flight Services.

Well said!

 

[On Your Six]

What's sad is that FLOPS used to be such a desirable place to be. Just a few years ago pilots were clammering to get interviews - and that is no longer the case. I frequently speak with FLOPS pilots on the road. Many are looking elsewhere and all seem to be frustrated. The new contract at NJA has opened their eyes to how bad their current situation is relative to both NJA and CS. I would not be surprised if FLOPS lost a number of pilots to both NJA and CS going forward.

If FLOPS management, including Bob, expect to attract and retain the pilots their owners "expect" to fly them, then conditions will need to improve - that's the point. How can FLOPS expect to be competitive in terms of attracting experienced pilots if their conditions and morale are much worse?

FLOPS is now developing the bad reputation that NJA had prior to the new TA. And that's a shame. I've talked to FLOPS pilots recently, and they are not happy campers. FLOPS management needs to remember - this is a service business... Low morale is transparent to owners despite high levels of professionalism. What FLOPS needs is a pilot workforce proud to represent FLOPS and one that feels it's respected. Sure, NJA's new TA is not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction and I have noticed a considerable uptick in morale among NJA pilots on the road - and that translates into better service and, in the end, hopefully happier owners and higher renewal rates.

Bob and the rest at FLOPS should be feeling a lot of pressure right now to demonstrate that they respect their pilot group. It's obvious CS respects its pilots by bumping up their compensation to competitive levels (CS does not want to lose good pilots who treat their owners well). Not matching NJA or at least boosting compensation in that direction would certainly send the wrong message. It would essentially validate the idea of bringing a union on board. So Bob, if you want a union on the property and you want your best and most-experienced pilots leaving in droves, then continue to ignore the competitive marketplace and continue to disrespect your pilots. The ball is in your court...

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

I'm sure the management idiots at FO know a union will be voted in within months. Why would they give a payraise now when they can keep slave wages, have them locked in when the union shows up, and keep paying them for three years of contract negotiations? The payraise will come eventually, but the union will have to be there to fight for it in a contractual form. Your CEO isn't going to keep up with CS and NetJets out of the kindness of his heart.

 

[hawkercpt]

crickets....





chirp....




chirp......




chirp.....

 

[Greaseman]

Company Website

Just paid a visit to the official FLOPs website...

The paragraph which bills FLOPs pilots as the best paid in the industry has been removed. The remarks regarding lowest pilot turnover have also been removed. Therein lies the response from the second largest fractional provider in the business.

I believe this to be a very sad day, one that most of us probably saw coming. One that I believe will mark a turning point in this Company that will facilitate a long and protracted battle between management and what was the most pro-business, pro-company, pilot group in fractional flying.

To those that are still undecided about sending in a card, join those of us who have in an effort to merely DISCUSS OPENLY as to what our options are going forward.

Grease

 

[slowjet]

Flops

Mr. Sheeringa is suppose to address the pay raises and other issues of the pilot group tomorrow. I contacted a higher up at FLOPS and pretty much voiced my concerns. The response is that FLOPS does not want to have a knee jerk reaction to the pay raises because they want to work out all of the issues and admitted mistakes of FLOPS management. So, I will be patient (very difficult for me) and give them till March to rid themselves of the cranual-rectum infusion. If not, see ya!!!

slowjet

 

[TWA]

I work at an FBO in SW Ohio. I see lots of frac pilots. The FLOPS pilots are always miserable and are quite open about how much they hate their jobs. Because of that they have many many owners that are choosing not to renew their contracts at the end of the terms.

Last night I was talking to a CS Captain, and he couldn't be happier with his job. Great pay and a great schedule. CS has come up with quite a concept: Make your pilots happy and they will keep the owners happy. That is why CS ownership is going through the roof.

Oh, and make sure you keep it a secret, but when the pilots are treated right, they become loyal to the company. God forbid that secret gets out!

 

[hawkercpt]

Just paid a visit to the official FLOPs website...

The paragraph which bills FLOPs pilots as the best paid in the industry has been removed. The remarks regarding lowest pilot turnover have also been removed. Therein lies the response from the second largest fractional provider in the business.

quote]




Well...



It's at least not silence. They have definately made a statement.

 

[miles otoole]

Last night I was talking to a CS Captain, and he couldn't be happier with his job. Great pay and a great schedule. CS has come up with quite a concept: Make your pilots happy and they will keep the owners happy. That is why CS ownership is going through the roof.

Interesting theory, but........NO.

 

[On Your Six]

Mr. Sheeringa is suppose to address the pay raises and other issues of the pilot group tomorrow. I contacted a higher up at FLOPS and pretty much voiced my concerns. The response is that FLOPS does not want to have a knee jerk reaction to the pay raises because they want to work out all of the issues and admitted mistakes of FLOPS management. So, I will be patient (very difficult for me) and give them till March to rid themselves of the cranual-rectum infusion. If not, see ya!!!

slowjet

I wonder how the owners would feel if they knew their pilots were not paid on par with their peers in the industry? How would they feel if they knew FLOPS now could not attract the "best or most qualified" pilots any longer due to considerable wage differences? Hmmm - perhaps they would start to question the money put into maintenance and operations?

Sure, the owners don't want to pay through the roof for this service, but they are also concerned about their own personal safety, and having the most "capable" and experienced pilots out there help to smooth over any of those concerns. I am sure they wouldn't be too happy to know that more experienced pilots are heading to NJA and CS instead... Serious pilot attrition to other fracs and airlines might be required to actually force change - similar to the NJA situation...

 

[leardawg]

I've got to believe that FLOPS management sees the handwriting on the wall; they would be slitting their own throats by digging in their heels and refusing to address pay and compensation issues in the wake of what is happening in the rest of the industry. They'll inevitably lose pilots to the other fracs, and have mostly their rejects to chose from as replacements.

But again, we're talking about Flops management! ...