Flight Options Non-MIGS

[fracjack]

Delta pilots are UNION PILOTS. If the individual in question has chosen not to be a UNION PILOT he should not seek employment in a unionized pilot group. He is either A.) anti union or B.) self serving and doesn't want to pay his share to become a MIG. In either case you reap what you sow and the ALPA pilots on the hiring commitee at Delta need to know what they are getting.

Paying what you owe is not a gray area and is not trivial.

What is owed is service fees for not belonging,that is contractual. You forgot C....is not selfserving but does not agree with union bargaining process and bylaw changes. WTF is a SWA newbie f/o doing on this forum? Get a freakin life.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

What is owed is service fees for not belonging,that is contractual. You forgot C....is not selfserving but does not agree with union bargaining process and bylaw changes. .

Sir what is owed is dues from day one. Thats what the majority of the pilots knowingly voted for when they voted in the IBT. Just like taxes you don't get to only pay when you agree with everything. If your town put a levy on the ballot and it passed you would still owe the taxes even if you voted no.

The real issue here is that the IBT can't force the pilots on the list to pay what they owe. Just because the IBT can't enforce the debt at this time doesn't mean the the money is not owed. What the IBT can and is doing is expose the individuals for who and what they are and subject them to the judgement and scrutiny of their peers. If the poeple on the list can't handle that they need to pay what they owe.

If C... Doesn't agree with the union bargaining process he shouldn't seek work at a unionized carrier like DAL. If it were really a matter of principal he would seek employment at a non union carrier. He can't have it both ways.

 

[1folinepilot]

Sir what is owed is dues from day one. Thats what the majority of the pilots knowingly voted for when they voted in the IBT. Just like taxes you don't get to only pay when you agree with everything. If your town put a levy on the ballot and it passed you would still owe the taxes even if you voted no.

The real issue here is that the IBT can't force the pilots on the list to pay what they owe. Just because the IBT can't enforce the debt at this time doesn't mean the the money is not owed. What the IBT can and is doing is expose the individuals for who and what they are and subject them to the judgement and scrutiny of their peers. If the poeple on the list can't handle that they need to pay what they owe.

If C... Doesn't agree with the union bargaining process he shouldn't seek work at a unionized carrier like DAL. If it were really a matter of principal he would seek employment at a non union carrier. He can't have it both ways.

How selective is your memory? When the majority of the pilots voted in the IBT for representation they were promised by Praetorian and his MEC that they would not owe any dues until the first contract was voted on and ratified. They were told that the IBT would fund the drive and that there was a war chest of funds from the Net Jet's pilots when they left the IBT. What happened was a later vote from the majority of the IBT1108 pilots which included the majority group of the Net Jets pilots to amend the bylaws to make a qualification to vote, one needed to pay dues from day one, not just from contract ratification. Most of the Flight Options pilots didn't even receive ballots in a timely fashion to vote or even receive ballots at all so the Flight Option pilots effectively had no say in that flawed decision to amend the bylaws on the dues issue.

Once the ball is in play, don't change the rules of the game to suit your own outcome.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

How selective is your memory? When the majority of the pilots voted in the IBT for representation they were promised by Praetorian and his MEC that they would not owe any dues until the first contract was voted on and ratified. They were told that the IBT would fund the drive and that there was a war chest of funds from the Net Jet's pilots when they left the IBT. What happened was a later vote from the majority of the IBT1108 pilots which included the majority group of the Net Jets pilots to amend the bylaws to make a qualification to vote, one needed to pay dues from day one, not just from contract ratification. Most of the Flight Options pilots didn't even receive ballots in a timely fashion to vote or even receive ballots at all so the Flight Option pilots effectively had no say in that flawed decision to amend the bylaws on the dues issue.

Once the ball is in play, don't change the rules of the game to suit your own outcome.

My memory is very good and not selective. Thank you for your concern. To refresh your memory the 1108 e board made the dues announcement prior to the election. I remember well because I seriously considered it when it came time to vote. They then found out that there was a problem with that after the election and had to ammend the by laws. So the Flight Options Pilots did in fact know we would have to pay dues before the election. We as a group voted in the 1108 knowing that that was the case. Quit trying to dodge the issue here. These guys owe the money. They need to pay up or deal with the consequences.

At the time of the Options vote there was no organized movement for the Netjets Pilots to leave the IBT. That came more than a year later. Ref the link to the AIN article below. 1108 was voted in by Options in 2006. Netjets Pilots left the IBT in 2008.

http://www.ainonline.com/ain-and-ai...&tx_ttnews[story_pointer]=5&tx_ttnews[mode]=1

 

[fracjack]

My memory is very good and not selective. Thank you for your concern. To refresh your memory the 1108 e board made the dues announcement prior to the election. I remember well because I seriously considered it when it came time to vote. They then found out that there was a problem with that after the election and had to ammend the by laws. So the Flight Options Pilots did in fact know we would have to pay dues before the election. We as a group voted in the 1108 knowing that that was the case. Quit trying to dodge the issue here. These guys owe the money. They need to pay up or deal with the consequences.

At the time of the Options vote there was no organized movement for the Netjets Pilots to leave the IBT. That came more than a year later. Ref the link to the AIN article below. 1108 was voted in by Options in 2006. Netjets Pilots left the IBT in 2008.

http://www.ainonline.com/ain-and-ai...&tx_ttnews[story_pointer]=5&tx_ttnews[mode]=1

WRONG BUCKO.. union koolaid drinkers voluntarily paid without asking. The vote to unionize specifically said no dues until a CBA was approved. Incidentally the vote was quickly rushed before the company could divulge their latest salary increase(reportedly 30% across the board) of which they immediately recinded any possible offer of a pay increase.

Ponder this... since someone compiled a list of 66 non-migs excluding mgtmt pilots of maybe 10 or so would show the 76 out of 300 are not very happy,that's 25% !! Not to include Migs who are not happy but don't wanna rock the leaky boat and you have ineffective leadership,hard feeling amongst the troops and a ton of grievances to eventually fight since many will slowly become aware of the CBA specifics that the company WILL push. Good thing the union has all that war chest money from NetJets.

So tell me again how that industry leading contract is working for ya? The fighting is now between the crews out looking at uniforms to see if they can spot those proud union ID's and ostracize the others who probably don't give a crap. The true mature professional educated crews will not let personal differences in status interfere. Principles and integrity can be displayed from migs and non migs. Paying contractual service fees for employment is a far cry from being treated as SCABS. Follow the money to the problems,it goes both ways.

 

[1folinepilot]

WRONG BUCKO.. union koolaid drinkers voluntarily paid without asking. The vote to unionize specifically said no dues until a CBA was approved. Incidentally the vote was quickly rushed before the company could divulge their latest salary increase(reportedly 30% across the board) of which they immediately recinded any possible offer of a pay increase.


Ghetto, I say you were OWNED!!! Fracjack is right on and correct. You should stop trying to distort the facts and put your energy back into doing your job instead of worrying about what everybody else is doing

 

[Mike Jenvey]

Just to give a view from the UK, the rules are very simple. You cannot be pressurised/penalised from either viewpoint. In other words, you are equally protected by employment law if you want/do not want to be a member of any such union.

From a personal viewpoint (despite being a union member), I would look aghast at any activities that published any form of list (to show status, lack of, or anything that could be deduced from it).

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

.....

 

[1folinepilot]

.....

Ghetto, That was the first wise thing you have done in a long time. You have no reply to Fracjack or myself because you are wrong. You are wrong for publishing your list and your continued harassment and intimidation of the people on your list is completely unacceptable.

How about re-directing your energy into doing your job and unifying the pilot group instead of fighting with everybody and tearing us apart. You have cost us enough already.

 

[Praetorian]

Wow you two sound really pissed.

But hey, thanks for the promotion. Think of all the power I now wield, with my very own MEC. :nuts: