Flight options new pay

[wacoflyr]

I was in no way intending that in a demeaning manner. Your management sees the value in investing in their best resources. Just lashing out because the last bit of fight I had in me just went out the window. You guys will be around a lot longer than options. I can't throw away another five years in hopes of finally being compensated fairly.

I was just joking with ya. I really wish you guys the best.

 

[The Kman]

For those of us who are furloughed. When and if we are ever recalled, what pay will we return to? Will we return to the year pay we were furloughed in plus 10%? Or do we accrue seniority we regard to pay as well? The union should post a numerical pay scale of each year of service for everyone to view. Just saying a 10% raise with regard to base salary does not sell me.

 

[ITFL]

For those of us who are furloughed. When and if we are ever recalled, what pay will we return to? Will we return to the year pay we were furloughed in plus 10%? Or do we accrue seniority we regard to pay as well? The union should post a numerical pay scale of each year of service for everyone to view. Just saying a 10% raise with regard to base salary does not sell me.

Go to the union message board and ask the question there. You will get a strait answer, not the BS you find on here.

 

[400pilot]

Holy smokes! A 2001 RTA hire and you were still furloughed? What was the DOH of the last RTA guy furloughed? (I was a AUG 2000 hire there),

I was hired in Nov 2000 at RTA and am furloughed.

 

[ITFL]

A few TA comments from left field.

Economy, Economy....whoa is us...Right? We know the damn economy cycles, and guess what? The company was paying you slave wages all the while that the economy was booming. Screw the economy talk guys....When the economy was booming they weren't offering you more money, but instead pocketing what they SHOULD have been paying you. The money ain't right in the TA, period.

Rest - anyone see ANY MENTION AT ALL of a Circadian Rhythm rest clause in the TA??? Are they just going to drop that from the SOP as soon as the TA is ratified? That is one safety related work rule I would not be happy to see go. It should have been taken back to original hours in fact.

Per diem - you just got back what you always had before guys....seriously. They took that away from you and now it looks like a new perk coming back the way it is. How about raising the per diem somewhat to actually match what is allowed? It has been 40.80 for what? like 8 years? Come on, that is ridiculous!!!

Overall, the TA stinks in my book, but everyone gets one individual vote, so make your own choice. My guess is it will be voted down.

The Economy: Fact worst recession in 80 years. Guess what, you are going to have to come to grips with reality here. Your right, we should have been paid more in the past. We should be paid a lot more than the TA provides for. But it doesn’t necessarily follow that because they raped us before, they have the money now. Oh yea they were sticken it to us good, that’s why we voted in a union, but since then we had MS sell off 8 fleets of aircraft and nearly bankrupt the company, to line his and his little friend’s pockets, we’ve had a catastrophic rate of owner redemptions, for various reasons (including MS’s managerial incompetence) not just the economy and we’ve seen a dramatic drop in revenue hours flown throughout the Fractional industry. Look it up, it’s sickening. Our industry was hit disproportionately hard by the financial collapse. These are all facts, weather you want to hear them or not.

Our union has seen the company’s books and has told us that this was the very best deal they could get. You want to be mad about that fine, but trashing the TA and encouraging others to vote against it will not change our reality.

I think you should be looking at our situation another way. We could vote down the contract, send the negotiating committee back to the table and get nothing, no raise, no job protections, no work rules, nothing, or we could live to fight another day.

If this TA is ratified I think we should have every reason to believe that we will be back at the table in 2 ½ years. Remember the company has to tell the union 185 days prior to the three year contract amendable date if they plan to invoke their 4th year option. If they exercise this option, they will incur millions of dollars in costs associated with the fleet wide pay increase that option will generate. Either way we get paid.

Bottom line: If you believe the union is lying to you about the company’s economics, vote the contract down. Hell, why not tell everyone else on here to vote it down, as well. But remember, you essentially hired the union to represent you. You sent them in to gather confidential information about the company’s books. Something you, or any of us individually, could not do on our own. They went in with a PhD economist to look at the books and now they are telling us this is the best deal they could get. You better be personally ready to pick up the flag and charge back in there if this thing fails, because by trashing this TA in public you will have been partly responsible.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Whoa there big fella. First of all this will be a five year contract for the company. Secondly we hired the union to represent us, and for many years they said they would finally level the playing field. If we accept this joke of a ta we will be working our butts of for a pittance of a wage. You know they will keep us so scaled back so to have us desperately low on coverage like always. Our corporate counterparts spend more time at home fly less than 200 hours per year and we will be gone from our families 60% of the time flying 500 hours a year. Flying is down that is true, but look how far they have scaled back the business and especially pilots. A bj generates 107,000 a month in fractional management fees, so your telling me that doesn't cover 4.3 pilots salaries. They will continue to play the hide the money shell game until the end of time. Time for plan B. I would rather quit than continue down the road were headed.

 

[ITFL]

Whoa there big fella. First of all this will be a five year contract for the company. Secondly we hired the union to represent us, and for many years they said they would finally level the playing field. If we accept this joke of a ta we will be working our butts of for a pittance of a wage. You know they will keep us so scaled back so to have us desperately low on coverage like always. Our corporate counterparts spend more time at home fly less than 200 hours per year and we will be gone from our families 60% of the time flying 500 hours a year. Flying is down that is true, but look how far they have scaled back the business and especially pilots. A bj generates 107,000 a month in fractional management fees, so your telling me that doesn't cover 4.3 pilots salaries. They will continue to play the hide the money shell game until the end of time. Time for plan B. I would rather quit than continue down the road were headed.

What are you, my dad? No we have a three year contract that contains expensive options, the company can exercise to extend the contract. Yes the union said they would level the playing field and then the WORST ECONOMIC CRISIS IN EIGHTY YEARS came along. NJ lost close to a billion dollars last year and furloughed 500 pilots, CA and Flex lost millions and furloughed. We do not have the deep pockets of the aircraft manufacturers or Berkshire behind us, so our company can't afford to loose that kind of dough and survive. Yes the business was scaled back, and that makes my point. The business was scaled back to the level of survival. You been in the OCC lately? Yea they hid the money, right in the operation.

Look, an argument can be made that if this company can't afford to pay it's pilots at the same level as the other three Fractional companies, they don't deserve to be in business. I buy that argument, except that the union is telling us that that really cant afford to pay their pilots at that level. So the choice for pilots is, burn the house down, or live to fight another day, get back to the table and try to do better then.

You wanna quit, fine, but some of us don't have other options. I'd rather take my chances here, for now, and if things don't get better in a few years when the economy recovers and there are jobs out there I will start looking. So don't hang around here, leave, save us all of your unrealistic, borderline delusional expectations. Sometimes there is no bogeyman, sometimes there is just reality. Deal with it or move on. Meanwhile I'll take my 46% raise, over 5 years, and take my wife out to dinner for the first time in a long time.

 

[SilverSurfer]

What are you, my dad? No we have a three year contract that contains expensive options, the company can exercise to extend the contract. Yes the union said they would level the playing field and then the WORST ECONOMIC CRISIS IN EIGHTY YEARS came along. NJ lost close to a billion dollars last year and furloughed 500 pilots, CA and Flex lost millions and furloughed. We do not have the deep pockets of the aircraft manufacturers or Berkshire behind us, so our company can't afford to loose that kind of dough and survive. Yes the business was scaled back, and that makes my point. The business was scaled back to the level of survival. You been in the OCC lately? Yea they hid the money, right in the operation.

Look, an argument can be made that if this company can't afford to pay it's pilots at the same level as the other three Fractional companies, they don't deserve to be in business. I buy that argument, except that the union is telling us that that really cant afford to pay their pilots at that level. So the choice for pilots is, burn the house down, or live to fight another day, get back to the table and try to do better then.

You wanna quit, fine, but some of us don't have other options. I'd rather take my chances here, for now, and if things don't get better in a few years when the economy recovers and there are jobs out there I will start looking. So don't hang around here, leave, save us all of your unrealistic, borderline delusional expectations. Sometimes there is no bogeyman, sometimes there is just reality. Deal with it or move on. Meanwhile I'll take my 46% raise, over 5 years, and take my wife out to dinner for the first time in a long time.

Dude you are way to deep in the Union coolaid. Take the blinders off for a minute and really consider all the aspects of this TA before you start taking shots at guys that are expressing genuine and well founded concerns about various aspects of the TA that SUCK.

 

[chainring]

Whoa there big fella. First of all this will be a five year contract for the company. Secondly we hired the union to represent us, and for many years they said they would finally level the playing field. If we accept this joke of a ta we will be working our butts of for a pittance of a wage. You know they will keep us so scaled back so to have us desperately low on coverage like always. Our corporate counterparts spend more time at home fly less than 200 hours per year and we will be gone from our families 60% of the time flying 500 hours a year. Flying is down that is true, but look how far they have scaled back the business and especially pilots. A bj generates 107,000 a month in fractional management fees, so your telling me that doesn't cover 4.3 pilots salaries. They will continue to play the hide the money shell game until the end of time. Time for plan B. I would rather quit than continue down the road were headed.

So you've seen the company books. You know for a fact that they can just pay us more huh. Everyones a expert on how much money is available. You say you would rather quit. Sounds tough, maybe you should ask some of the furloughees how much fun there having beeing out of work. So what do you think were going to get. 5% more? 10% more. In my opinions in todays market thats a huge gamble.

 

[ITFL]

Dude you are way to deep in the Union coolaid. Take the blinders off for a minute and really consider all the aspects of this TA before you start taking shots at guys that are expressing genuine and well founded concerns about various aspects of the TA that SUCK.

Ok, if you will take the blinders off and actually make an argument against the points I make. Where am I off track? I have "genuine and well founded concerns" about the sanity of anyone who argues that, in this economy, we should vote down a contract that would give an average 36% raise to every union pilot on this property over five years. Sure parts of it SUCK, tell me how you would go about fixing that. What's the plan?

Or you could just continue making accusations.