FLIGHT OPTIONS (and only Flight Options) related PILOT discussion

[cougar12]

You need to go back to school and get a degree in finance. You fall into the same category as what NJW has said. You had the opportunity to invest in your career as NJW continues to say, and invest properly to get the skills necessary for you to run a large company.

Perhaps then you could earn the payday you desire by taking the responsibility of running a large multimillion dollar company.

Since you chose not to invest properly in your finance degree and only became a pilot, you are going to have to suffer with CEOs that did invest in their careers by getting their finance degree that make multi-million dollar salaries, and then buying airplanes to give you something to fly while you dream of their multi-million dollar paydays.

Then how do you explain your MORON of a boss (MS) and his B.S. degree in Transportation. So far all I can see he is qualified to do is pave roads in Ohio. He probably loose money doing that too. You are a complete IDIOT! I savor the thought of you being tossed out on your ear with the rest of your cronies.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

thread full of dumb@sses

MODS--
Please either remove known troll B-19 from the boards, or at minimum, the many OFF TOPIC rants on this thread, and the 2nd tier trolls not intelligent enough to ignore and stop quoting B-19's inflammatory posts:smash:

 

[B19 Flyer]

Censorship?

MODS--
Please either remove known troll B-19 from the boards, or at minimum, the many OFF TOPIC rants on this thread, and the 2nd tier trolls not intelligent enough to ignore and stop quoting B-19's inflammatory posts:smash:

That is called censorship.

I have a right to voice my opposition and personal experience to the destructive forces of what unions have done to my career.

To me, the dumba$$e$ here are the ones that pound the union drum with complete disregard for their counterparts that don't want a union, the non-pilot employees that will have a reduced payroll to pay for the increased pilot pay due to the CBA, the shareholders and owners that will pay for the increased costs incurred because of a union and the forced intervention into company management that interferes with progress and ultimately safety.

I dislike your opinion a lot more than you dislike mine. The only reason a union comes on the property is because there are a small group of pilots that think they can run the company better than management, yet refuse to become managers themselves and would rather beat the union drum because it's easier.

I've been laid off twice due to union action and inaction, and have found happiness in a non-union carrier that has the highest QOL I've ever seen.

You can take your censorship, and shove it. In my opinion, it's the union mongers that need to be censored, but I would never ask or demand that because it's not the American way. I like the quote feature because its easier for me to keep track of the many people that write on this board that think they get it but don't.

If you don't like what I write, place me on ignore. It's very easy and I encourage it. Besides, you aren't the audience I want to speak with anyway. The people I want to reach are those that haven 't experienced a layoff and don't understand the turmoil unions bring internally to any company, not just an airline.

The turmoil that is happening right now at FLOPS is typical of union activity. Look at this board and how many don't understand the process and whine and whine. It doesn't stop on this board, it carries into daily life and a becomes a distraction on the flight deck..

The NJ guys got a good contract and have touted the relationship with 1108, and now that they have what they want are telling the IBT to get lost which will fracture the strength of the union.

It's always turmoil with unions, you can't escape it. That's why I say, be careful what you ask for. In my opinion, if you want to fly for a union carrier, go find one but don't bring one in and disrupt everybody else because you are selfish and think you know more than the people that started the company.

If you do know more, start your own. Leave the rest of the innocent non-pilot employees, management, aircraft owners and stockholders out of it.

That being said, your voice is nothing but garbage to me but you have every right to spit out anything you want.

There are a handful of folks on this board that are constantly in disagreement with me. If I had to place a bet, none of them have been forced out of their careers by a union action or have managed at a high level in a union enviroment at a large carrier (Chief Pilot or above) of which I've done both. This glaring lack of experience is apparent in their posts.

Censorship? Not a chance.

 

[waka]

because of a union and the forced intervention into company management that interferes with progress and ultimately safety.

it has been shown to you over and over of how the 1108's Safety Committee has increased safety at Flight Options in opposition to management that interferes with it. you haven't disputed this because you can't

I dislike your opinion a lot more than you dislike mine.

how do you know?

The only reason a union comes on the property is because there are a small group of pilots that think they can run the company better than management, yet refuse to become managers themselves and would rather beat the union drum because it's easier.

that "small group" was 67% and it was not to run the company, but to protect the pilot group against an incompetent, deceptive and unscrupulous management.

You can take your censorship, and shove it. In my opinion, it's the union mongers that need to be censored, but I would never ask or demand that because it's not the American way.

It is not censorship if a message board mod silences a troll. See? You are a troll.

BTW; the right to organize and collectively bargain is the American way too.

Besides, you aren't the audience I want to speak with anyway. The people I want to reach are those that haven 't experienced a layoff and don't understand the turmoil unions bring internally to any company, not just an airline.

your hopes are too high if you think that you're actually getting to anyone. with you not replying to obviously valid points and your overall idiocy, you suck at your little crusade....no matter how much you delude yourself into thinking you make a difference. you don't.

The turmoil that is happening right now at FLOPS is typical of union activity.

no, the turmoil is from FLOPS management and this is another point that you won't and can't refute.

In my opinion, if you want to fly for a union carrier, go find one but don't bring one in and disrupt everybody else because you are selfish and think you know more than the people that started the company.

What is truly disrupting is FLOPS' current management. (which by the way, did not "start the company" (shows how much you don't know)). The pilots, along with other nonpilot employees, for all intents and purposes, built the company. The current management is just a Johnny come lately that is wrecking the company.

All that aside, it is a right to organize under the RLA and if the majority votes in a union, then it isn't "disrupting everybody" else because "everybody" is now the union.

If you do know more, start your own. Leave the rest of the innocent non-pilot employees, management, aircraft owners and stockholders out of it.

Innocent management?? :smash: You are naive!

Also, there are many non pilot employees that support the pilot's efforts.

That being said, your voice is nothing but garbage to me but you have every right to spit out anything you want.

Your voice is garbage to everyone else except for a small group of scabs that only care about themselves. I haven't exactly seen any posts of support for your moron crusade.

This glaring lack of experience is apparent in their posts.

You only say this because you ass kissed your way to a middle manager position and you're a wannabe scab.

The true professionals are defending the profession from management's assault. You wouldn't know about professionalism though. Just because you were paid to fly at one time doesn't mean that you were a professional pilot.

No matter how much you congratulate yourself on your so-called experience with unions, you know little about unions and labor management relations. Crawl back to your cowardly middle manager suck-up hole.

You can come out once you can present even basically cogent points.

 

[Fozzy]

It's clear that RS blamed the union for a large chunk of that publically. The fact that NJ has made money for a couple of quarters does not mean that the contract is successful. The true measure will be when the going gets tough.

Ya it was so bad for them to operate under 05 TA they came back and gave us more money in the 07 IBB.

I am done with paid hacks.

 

[fischman]

I sure hope NetJets will be able to afford the new $200,000,000 facility. Especially since they have to pay all of us greedy pilots.

BTW, Directly from Jim Christiansen's mouth: NJA had a very good Jan and Feb. The MOST profitable Jan and Feb in company history. Well done everyone. :beer:

 

[fischman]

That is called censorship.

I have a right to voice my opposition and personal experience to the destructive forces of what unions have done to my career.

Guess what? You CAN get censored. This message board is NOT public property.

You have a right to voice your opinions. The Moderators have a right to censor you or me.

 

[fischman]

I dislike your opinion a lot more than you dislike mine. The only reason a union comes on the property is because there are a small group of pilots that think they can run the company better than management, yet refuse to become managers themselves and would rather beat the union drum because it's easier.

Ummmm.... No.

The reason Unions get voted in to a company is because the employees are being treated unfairly by BAD management. The FLOPS pilots voiced their opinion strongly. The Union has no desire to run the company. They want a fair wage, safe work rules, and time at home with their families. Flight Options has not been willing to provide that.

 

[fischman]

The turmoil that is happening right now at FLOPS is typical of union activity. Look at this board and how many don't understand the process and whine and whine. It doesn't stop on this board, it carries into daily life and a becomes a distraction on the flight deck..

Ummmm..... No.

The turmoil happening at FLOPS started LOOONNNGGG before IBT1108 was there. It is typical of management being disrespectful, uncaring, and arrogant.

 

[dime line]

Ummmm..... No.

The turmoil happening at FLOPS started LOOONNNGGG before IBT1108 was there. It is typical of management being disrespectful, uncaring, and arrogant.

Its typical of B19 types

 

[shanes123]

Best thing to do with B19 is just not respond to any of his posts. It gives him a forum to spread his Bullsh*t. He either is a scumbag with a agenda or some loser that has nothing better to do then get on here and talk trash. Let him say what he wants and nobody respond. Eventually he will take his ball and go home. Or get his *ss Fired and have no interest in being here anymore..Either way we win.

 

[Majik]

I think you guys are under estimating the value of someone like B19 to your success.

When NJA pilots were going through their battle with an unyielding management, the naysayers and profits of doom (Family Guy, NJA Crewservicer, a few NJI pilots, etc.) actually steeled the believers and made many fence-sitters join into the fight.

So relish B19 and let him help get the troops fired up by telling you how bad you are for wanting to be paid industry standard wages for the work you do and how you're doomed to failure.

The naysayers to NJA pilot's struggle probably have no idea how much they ultimately helped us.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Ignorance is bliss

I think you guys are under estimating the value of someone like B19 to your success.

When NJA pilots were going through their battle with an unyielding management, the naysayers and profits of doom (Family Guy, NJA Crewservicer, a few NJI pilots, etc.) actually steeled the believers and made many fence-sitters join into the fight.

So relish B19 and let him help get the troops fired up by telling you how bad you are for wanting to be paid industry standard wages for the work you do and how you're doomed to failure.

The naysayers to NJA pilot's struggle probably have no idea how much they ultimately helped us.

Not once have I suggested that any pilot shouldn't be paid industry wages. Not once have I ever stated that any pilot shouldn't have decent work rules.

You union mongering idiots have stated that I have said that, go through all 400 plus posts of mine and see if you can find a single word regarding that.

What I have repeatedly stated, is that unions create turmoil and be careful what you ask for.

Once again, look at the radical nature of these boards. The FLOPS guys are acting like spoiled brats and the NJ guys are unhappy with the IBT that supported the sanctioning of 1108 to represent them after they got their industry leading contract because they are paying them too much of their hard earned dues.

In my eyes, it's too bad.. You wanted the union, you got it. Pony up to the bar boys, and give the Teamsters what you owe them. Stop whining about it.

It's turmoil, after turmoil and the union guys are never happy. It spills over to the non-pilot employees and every other facet of the carrier.

There are non-union carriers that have high QOL without unions, and it's funny that the unions will even take credit for those.

For those guys that want a union, go find a company with a union and go work for them. Don't bring your bad attitude to a carrier that doesn't have a union and infect it.

 

[gunfyter]

19,

We are more like a Bank... than an airline.

We manage other peoples assets. OPM.

Our top mangement are Investment Bankers... not airline and OEM manufacturer people.

Fractional Reserve Banking

Banks loan out up to 10 times as much money (OPM) as they have on deposit in their "warehouse" called a Bank.


Fractional Aircraft Ownership.

Fracs effectively loan out 10 times as many airplanes as depositors (owners) have stored in their "warehouse" aka a Hangar.

JetCards are like ATM cards... used to withdraw wht you have on deposit.

 

[B19 Flyer]

19,

We are more like a Bank... than an airline.

We manage other peoples assets. OPM.

Our top mangement are Investment Bankers... not airline and OEM manufacturer people.

Fractional Reserve Banking

Banks loan out up to 10 times as much money (OPM) as they have on deposit in their "warehouse" called a Bank.


Fractional Aircraft Ownership.

Fracs effectively loan out 10 times as many airplanes as depositors (owners) have stored in their "warehouse" aka a Hangar.

JetCards are like ATM cards... used to withdraw wht you have on deposit.

You remember that next time the FAA has you call the tower for a conversation.

You remember that when you go in for recurrent training.

You remember that when you are waiting for a signoff from maintenance to begin your next flight.

You remember that next time scheduling books you a hotel or limo ride.

You remember that next time your dispatcher files your flight plan for you.

You remember that next time HR cuts your pay stub.

You remember that every function mentioned also happens at airlines everyday.

The only difference between a frac and an airline is how the revenue comes in the door.

Everything else is the same, the certification, the insurance, the airplane requirements (Part 25) and the airspace system.

The best part of it is, without the 121 airlines, repositioning crews would be impossible. You should be nice to the 121 people, for without them, fracs wouldn't be able to exist.

You work for an airline whether you like it or not and are subject to the same market pressures.

 

[netjetwife]

....
The naysayers to NJA pilot's struggle probably have no idea how much they ultimately helped us.

Majik, it's nice to see your spinning plane on the board... (I've missed it) and to read your perspective. As you noted, the FUD always gets deep around here during contract negotiations or even if pilots just start talking about organizing their collective efforts to improve pay and work rules....

Shane, respectful posters are a pleasure to converse with. I agree with you that those who are not should get the boot:fudspinners, word twisters, and reality warpers to the front of the line!

Hello, to you too, Gunfyter! Your explanation is easy to follow, but don't be surprised when the targeted audience ignores it because it doesn't fit the agenda...

Stepping over the FUD puddle to get to the worthy posts,
NJW

 

[B19 Flyer]

that "small group" was 67% and it was not to run the company, but to protect the pilot group against an incompetent, deceptive and unscrupulous management.

Options has what, around 1700 employees and about 800 pilots? Let's say that 67% of the pilots voted for the union. (about 530)

Pretty safe to say that if the remaining 900 employees had a say in the vote, they would have voted no.

536 yes, 1164 no.

The percentages change a bit eh? It's no longer 67% yes, it's now 69% no.

You are only fooling yourself to think that any non-pilot employee wants to sign his career off to a union that is only there to milk the company from every shred of money they can.

 

[dime line]

Options has what, around 1700 employees and about 800 pilots? Let's say that 67% of the pilots voted for the union. (about 530)

Pretty safe to say that if the remaining 900 employees had a say in the vote, they would have voted no.

536 yes, 1164 no.

The percentages change a bit eh? It's no longer 67% yes, it's now 69% no.

You are only fooling yourself to think that any non-pilot employee wants to sign his career off to a union that is only there to milk the company from every shred of money they can.

Those other 900 employees have the ability to vote for their own union. And if they don't like "the pilots" being union, then they can quit. So again I don't care

 

[B19 Flyer]

Those other 900 employees have the ability to vote for their own union. And if they don't like "the pilots" being union, then they can quit. So again I don't care

And I can certainly say this. Your attitude is what got you guys into the position you are in. Blame management all you want, but in the end it's the non-pilot workers that are there to keep you safe every day. Without their support, airplanes DO NOT fly.

You not caring is exactly why I post and support non union airlines.

 

[imacdog]

19 must really need the overtime today! How much does your firm pay you to post, 19?