Flyer1015 said:
KeroseneSnorter,
So you have justified murdering thousands of innocent civilians ?
Hmmm. How was 9/11 any different? The only thing different was that WE were on the receving side of the sh*tstorm.
From your point of view, it's okay for us to blow up innocent civilians so as long as it's in our best interest.
So, then you must think that terrorists that blow innocent people are not crazies, but indeed, individuals who act in their best interests?
I see a double standard here.
I never said anything about Iraq except that we will be judged by our actions at a future date, and that judgment will largly be based on the outcome.
My problem is the contention that Bush is a Hitler, and the statement that somehow our use of the A-Bomb in 1945 was wrong and evil.
1945 is not 2006, there were no smart bombs and guided missles. By the time we dropped the bombs 50 million people had already been killed. In 45 there was zero way to win the war without airpower.
The civilians that you speak of in the cities were actually war workers. Japan had scattered its munitions plants and weapon factories all over the place in all the large cities in a effort to hide them from our B-29 raids. Hitting the "Military target north of Hiroshima and Nagasaki would have done nothing to their arms production, read any good history book of the war and you would know this. In that war there were no civilians, and had there been, there was no way to only target the military, we lacked the technology even if the industrial war producing facilities were not distributed among the civilian population.
The A-Bombs actually saved lives in Japan. Prior to having the A-bomb as an option our only way to slow the arms manufacture was to firebomb the cities. On March 9th and 10th 1945 334 B-29's fire bombed Tokyo....over 100,000 people died in the city. Both Nagasaki and Hiroshima put together only killed 105,000. 66,000 in Hiroshima and 39,000 in Nagasaki.
Had the war remained conventional, the war would have lasted until at least late 1946 (US Army estimate in 1945, documented in its attack plan for the mainland. At a rate of 100,000 dead from the air every two days, plus the deaths from the ground combat for the extra 12 to 18 months of combat it would have taken to defeat the Japanese mainland, Instead of 50 million dead in 6 years, it would have been 55 or 60 million dead in 7 to 8 years.
Trying to compare what is happening now to what was happening then, or trying to justify a position that we should not have used the A-bomb in 45 by using todays combat capabilities is silly and soils the memories of the 50 million that died during that war.
You forget that we could have lost that war very easily, had the Germans not made an incorrect turn early in their nucular research they would have had the bomb long before we could have. History could read very very different indeed except for a small twist of fate and a few scientist making a critical error in Germany, and scientist not making the same error in the US. They had everything else they needed including the ballistic missle delivery system for the a-bomb (V-1 Rocket)
In fact our own early ballistic missles in the 50's and 60's were all based on the V-1 design. We copied it and improved from there. (Those same Germans that designed the V-1 also designed the Saturn 5 rocket that took us the the moon in 69, fella by the name of Vonbraum. sp?)
If Bush were indeed Hitler, currently we would have all muslums in concentration camps systematically sending them to their doom, and we would not even make an attempt to target only military targets as we now do.
Having said that, I personally feel that we should pull the troops out of Iraq. Why? Because they obviously are too caught up in their own petty 2000 year old feud with each other to be any more of a threat. Pull the troops home, let Iraq self destruct into civil war if they want.
However I do not advocate ever leaving ourselves open to another 9/11. If it takes the force of the military to do it....so be it. Like it or not we are a target because of our beliefs....nothing more. If the terrorists had their way, they would exterminate all gays, christians, and anybody else that offended their sensibilities.........much the way Hitler and the Nazi's did. Ironic isn't it, 50 million killed to stop it 1945, and the world screamed that Great Britian and France didn't act to remove Hitler before it came to that, and now we act to remove a person with a proven past of similar acts (Sadaam gassed his own people and committed religous genocide on the Kurds) and we are condemed for taking an active stance against it before it turned into 50 million dead.
Was it right? The only way to really tell would have been to do nothing, but if we were right we avoided another Hitler. If not and we left Iraq today, al we can really be accused of is removing a murdering tyrant from power and trying to establish democracy and freedom to a country.
Time will be our judges, just as it was for Truman and his decision to use the bomb, and of Hitler and Tojo for sending the world into chaos.
At least we did not start this one, and we even ignored the first 10 or so attacks on us before acting...World trade 93, USS Cole, Various embassy bombings, etc. And we are not activly targeting civilians.....if that were the case as some claim and we could flatten cities conventionally in 1945 with nothing more than slow lumbering piston powered aircraft with un guided iron bombs............there would be millions dead by now, not 100,000.
Of course we can always sit around with our thumb up our butt and do nothing and wait for some terrorist to detonate a nuke in New York.............would that appease the protesters I wonder?
