FlexPilots

[Club ORD FO]

Our 401(k) match is 100% on the first 6% and the company adds an additional 3% on top of that. So, I put in 6 and the put in 9. This is identical to before DAC.

Sure about that? I don't think we get that bonus match on each paycheck anymore. Its a year end bonus now.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Sure about that? I don't think we get that bonus match on each paycheck anymore. Its a year end bonus now.

It's the same percentage paid out in 2 installments. .75% in the summer and 2.25% late in the year.

 

[Club ORD FO]

It's the same percentage paid out in 2 installments. .75% in the summer and 2.25% late in the year.

Ok yup, thats sounds right. Disregard

 

[wingsnthings]

One of the biggest changes that I see is that our (Flexjet)short term disability is now paid at 100%. Much better than Bombardier short term. I'll take that over 3 PTO days all day long.

 

[993_Pilot]

Ultimately, my gut says that you guys are getting played. No doubt, he will treat the Flex pilots well, while there is a potential single carrier / union representation vote hanging in the air. KR was never this generous with the FLOPS pilots before (or after) the union, so why do you all think he is suddenly being this generous with the Flex pilots now? I guarantee it isn't out of the goodness of his heart, there is a motivation behind it. Ask yourself, "What might the real motivation be?" Do you all really think a dog can change the color of his spots? If the question of union representation were removed, it would be less than one year before your benefits and compensation would look distinctly different.

... or maybe TWA and all the true believers at Flex would be granted an extra stripe for their uniform and be elevated to the status of "Senior Flight Officers". Then we could go back to the days of individually negotiated special deals for those willing to never say "No" to anything. Sounds just peachy to me.

The question that the Flex pilots should be asking themselves is not, "What makes the teamsters so great?"... What you should be asking yourselves is that "Even with all their imperfections and faults, why do the majority of FLOPS pilots still feel they are much better off with the Teamsters, than not being represented at all?" This didn't happen by accident guys. We came to be represented over the course of several years of failed promises and eroded benefits. I know you are all afraid of losing what you already have, and that is a very valid concern. Hopefully, the 1108 MEC is addressing this during their "fence" negotiations with DAC/One Sky, but if you won't listen and learn from those who have been down this path before you, we are ALL doomed to repeat our past.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Yup I get that you guys felt you needed to unionize due to broken promises and all that. Had I been at options I bet I would have voted yes as well. But, none of that nasty stuff has happened at flex. Yet. You're asking us to vote pro union based on the belief that things will go massively downhill. When you guys voted in a union things were horrible, and you knew a union would only make it better. Over at flex things are fine. Personally I'd rather wait until something crazy happens, then I'll vote twice. Since there is a chance we would lose pay, schedule, and benefits if we vote in the union then you have to agree it is riskier for us than it was/is for you. KR has said we can keep what we have. Do I believe him? I really don't know. But why not give it a chance before we play the union card? The threat of a union is almost as good as having one.

I'm still surprised that the union is going to bring in the flex pilots and put it to a vote. Does the MEC not think it's a risky move? If you guys do nothing, then you can keep your union and we can keep playing in our own sandbox. If things get nasty we will be the ones asking for a vote.

 

[slowtation capt]

Personally I'd rather wait until something crazy happens, then I'll vote twice. Since there is a chance we would lose pay, schedule, and benefits if we vote in the union then you have to agree it is riskier for us than it was/is for you. KR has said we can keep what we have. Do I believe him? I really don't know. But why not give it a chance before we play the union card? The threat of a union is almost as good as having one.

KR also said is his meeting that the 401K for Flops needs to come back now. Well that's not hard, walk down the stairs, through the hall into HR's office and say, "Re-instate the 401K" Language is all ready in the contract for re-instatement. Why hasn't KR spoken those words, nothing is stopping him, certainly not the Union.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

KR also said is his meeting that the 401K for Flops needs to come back now. Well that's not hard, walk down the stairs, through the hall into HR's office and say, "Re-instate the 401K" Language is all ready in the contract for re-instatement. Why hasn't KR spoken those words, nothing is stopping him, certainly not the Union.

The problem is you guys have a union. For everything one side gives there must be something taken in return.

As long as you guys have the 1108 he won't "give" you stuff. Even a good will gesture to the pilots won't get management anywhere with you. The union is a great wedge dividing your company. Until it goes away things won't get better.

Would the union "give" up all the crew bases you have for nothing in return. Of course not.

You guys live under a union, you should know how things work by now.

 

[slowtation capt]

The problem is you guys have a union. For everything one side gives there must be something taken in return.

As long as you guys have the 1108 he won't "give" you stuff. Even a good will gesture to the pilots won't get management anywhere with you. The union is a great wedge dividing your company. Until it goes away things won't get better.

Would the union "give" up all the crew bases you have for nothing in return. Of course not.

You guys live under a union, you should know how things work by now.

That is about the most asinine statement that I have ever heard.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

TWA. The union isn't the problem. Didn't SS warn us that the company will get the union they deserve. Oh! That's right, he is no longer here.

 

[dashtrasher]

That is about the most asinine statement that I have ever heard.

Then I guess you haven't been listening to many statements in this thread.

 

[The Architect]

Really?

The problem is you guys have a union. For everything one side gives there must be something taken in return.

As long as you guys have the 1108 he won't "give" you stuff. Even a good will gesture to the pilots won't get management anywhere with you. The union is a great wedge dividing your company. Until it goes away things won't get better.

Would the union "give" up all the crew bases you have for nothing in return. Of course not.

You guys live under a union, you should know how things work by now.

What about the reinstatement of the Flight Options pilots groups 401k?

The Flight Options employees were given the impression that this was the fault of the union. That is was "negotiated away." Really? Not so.

The company discontinued the Flight Options employees 401k prior to completion of the CBA. Note the LOA language:

WHEREAS, the parties have agreed to delay the effective date of subsection 29.2 of the Agreement due to current economic conditions impacting the Company?s business;

WHEREAS[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman], the parties intend for this LOA to become effective upon ratification of the Agreement;
[/FONT][/FONT]
The company needed the LOA because they had agreed to 401k provisions in the CBA. Now that had to change.

It goes on to say:

2. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]It shall not be a violation of this LOA or Section 29 of the Agreement if the Company makes a matching contribution that is less than the amounts specified in Section 29.2 of the Agreement. However, the initial Company matching contribution, and all increases in matching contributions described in Paragraph 2.(a) and 2.(b), whichever is applicable, of this LOA, regardless of whether the matching contributions are non-discretionary or discretionary matches under the 401(k) Plan, or a combination thereof, shall be subject to this Paragraph 2. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Flight Options management could of, and can, reinstate 401k matching ANY time they want. Even for a lesser amount than required by the CBA.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING is stopping Flight Options senior executives from starting this benefit. Certainly the union is not stopping it, rather the union has formally indicated they encourage the reinstatement of this benefit.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]How is an employee supposed to feel when their company won't reinstate such benefit, yet can spend millions, if not billions on other acquisitions?[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]What motivation is there for this difference between two employee groups under the same executive leadership?
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[The Architect]

Do Nothing?

I'm still surprised that the union is going to bring in the flex pilots and put it to a vote. Does the MEC not think it's a risky move? If you guys do nothing, then you can keep your union and we can keep playing in our own sandbox. If things get nasty we will be the ones asking for a vote.

Do nothing?

So it is acceptable for a party to a collective bargaining agreement to violate it and the other party not act?

The union failing the act would be actionable by the Flight Options pilot group. It would be the basis for failure to provide the Duty of Fair Representation.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

What about the reinstatement of the Flight Options pilots groups 401k?

The Flight Options employees were given the impression that this was the fault of the union. That is was "negotiated away." Really? Not so.

The company discontinued the Flight Options employees 401k prior to completion of the CBA. Note the LOA language:

WHEREAS, the parties have agreed to delay the effective date of subsection 29.2 of the Agreement due to current economic conditions impacting the Company?s business;

WHEREAS[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman], the parties intend for this LOA to become effective upon ratification of the Agreement;
[/FONT][/FONT]
The company needed the LOA because they had agreed to 401k provisions in the CBA. Now that had to change.

It goes on to say:

2. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]It shall not be a violation of this LOA or Section 29 of the Agreement if the Company makes a matching contribution that is less than the amounts specified in Section 29.2 of the Agreement. However, the initial Company matching contribution, and all increases in matching contributions described in Paragraph 2.(a) and 2.(b), whichever is applicable, of this LOA, regardless of whether the matching contributions are non-discretionary or discretionary matches under the 401(k) Plan, or a combination thereof, shall be subject to this Paragraph 2. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Flight Options management could of, and can, reinstate 401k matching ANY time they want. Even for a lesser amount than required by the CBA.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING is stopping Flight Options senior executives from starting this benefit. Certainly the union is not stopping it, rather the union has formally indicated they encourage the reinstatement of this benefit.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]How is an employee supposed to feel when their company won't reinstate such benefit, yet can spend millions, if not billions on other acquisitions?[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]What motivation is there for this difference between two employee groups under the same executive leadership?
[/FONT][/FONT]

I never said the union was keeping the company from giving back the 401(k) match. That woud be idiotic.

I stated that I didn't think the company would just give back the 401(k) match without negotiating something in return. That is what a union is all about. To get anything you must give something else up.

With a union in place nothing is ever given by either side without negotiating something in return.

 

[gret]

That is about the most asinine statement that I have ever heard.

...for the rest of us...what is "asinine" about it?