Flexjet Union Drive Continues...

[FalconPilot69]

If no one at Flex wants a union then why did we pass the 2/3 vote? Interesting!

It would appear to me that if this was in fact true, then the line would be buzzing about it. Other than what you just posted, that is a first for me to hear that.

 

[el raton]

R.H. doesn't have a clue how happy we are. He wrote that attrition was zero. Wait till this fall. Hey Rick can you hear the union coming. No your blinded by a temporary slow down in attrition. Your blind by all the suck ups who backed you up on your thread.Speaking of them you people made most of the flex crews sick to their stomachs. Training, keep up the good work, pretty soon you will have ibt to answer to. Happy gawd its so fun around here we can't stand it.

 

[Fozzy]

full pay to the last day mentality

Well, I wish you luck with the "Will fly for food" mentality.
You are management's wet dream. You should be proud.

 

[FalconPilot69]

Training, keep up the good work, pretty soon you will have ibt to answer to.

If you stink as a pilot, then why should any company want to keep you? Better yet, ask yourself, do you want to fly into hard IFR into the mountains with someone who should not even be driving a car? From what I have heard from people who were and have flown with those who have been tossed, I would not want my family in the same state when they were flying.

No one, not even your IBT, should be allowed to keep someone's job that is that bad. And no, I will not go into details as to what was mentioned.

Having been with someone in the sim that washed out, I am thankful that training is doing the job they are doing. It is pretty bad when you are in the sim and the guy scares you enough that you want to get out as fast as you can.

 

[vixin]

What is even more sad is the fact that Flex made the most recent washout a stans captain. Are you going to tell me he all of a sudden became that bad? What a joke that process is!! Half of the standards captains shouldnt have that position. The other half are like cookie boy and do it to boost egos. They just make me laugh. We have 1 or 2 fo's that should have been let go a long time ago, but for some reason they are still here. So who knows what the criteria are.

 

[walshsfly]

I don't have "will fly for food mentality" that’s why I got out of the airlines, and those were pay rates negotiated by a union. I also saw good pilots washed out in training by the unions input because the pilot wasn't the unions wet dream, and yet they kept pilots that should have been let go, and they almost kill people.

Whether there is a union or not you’re screwed it’s just by who becomes the question, and I would rather not have to pay for it.

In regards to training washing out pilots on purpose get your facts straight, and that’s not what the pilot says or the company says, because that is only a small part of what happened either way. If you want to know what really happened, sit in the sim with them on there ride, that’s the only way you will ever know the whole truth about it. So no one on here can make really make a comment about it, can you?

If this union is so good, and our life would be so much better with them, and they wan't to be here so bad, then why don't they offer no dues for the first five years. Then after that dues would only be .0005%, otherwise it looks like they are only going after us for the money. Which is the only thing they wan't after all. Just remember unions and managment only want one thing out of employees, Profit.

 

[xpdriver]

I don't have "will fly for food mentality" that’s why I got out of the airlines, and those were pay rates negotiated by a union. I also saw good pilots washed out in training by the unions input because the pilot wasn't the unions wet dream, and yet they kept pilots that should have been let go, and they almost kill people.

Whether there is a union or not you’re screwed it’s just by who becomes the question, and I would rather not have to pay for it.

In regards to training washing out pilots on purpose get your facts straight, and that’s not what the pilot says or the company says, because that is only a small part of what happened either way. If you want to know what really happened, sit in the sim with them on there ride, that’s the only way you will ever know the whole truth about it. So no one on here can make really make a comment about it, can you?

If this union is so good, and our life would be so much better with them, and they wan't to be here so bad, then why don't they offer no dues for the first five years. Then after that dues would only be .0005%, otherwise it looks like they are only going after us for the money. Which is the only thing they wan't after all. Just remember unions and managment only want one thing out of employees, Profit.

Are you a member of a gym? Do they give you free dues for 5 years then 5 dollars a month? Answer:NO Hey ding dong, It takes money to run an organization,nothing in life is free,didn't someone in your life teach you that. The reason your pay scale sucked at your last job,is not because the UNION set the rates,its because guys like you and others that did not stand up and demand better pay and benefits. By the way it cost me about 550 a year to get a six figure salary. I'm no rocket surgeon,but that is a pretty good return on my money.

 

[Cautious Belly]

If the Teamsters are so smart, then why don't they start their own fractional? Or trucker line? Or any business? That's because in their "business", they don't have to know anything about business, or anything worthwhile. What a scam.

They won't, of course, because the Teamsters are nothing but a parasite organization that feeds off the blood ($) of companies and the employees they represent, promising a "better life" and "protection" to one side, while trying to assume the duties of the other side.

Call me a "company man" all you want. My paycheck says "Bombardier" on it, not "James Hoffa, Jr."

If you don't like it, here's your invitation to not let the door hit your fat @$$ on the way out.

XPDriver, you don't even work here, so STFU.

 

[johnsonrod]

My general experience is that it is better to have a union and someone protecting your interests than to not have a union where you have no recourse over reckless or seeminly impulsive management decisions. It's like having insurance - you don't think you need it until something happens to you... Then you are thankful.

That's just my opinion...

 

[el raton]

If the Teamsters are so smart, then why don't they start their own fractional? Or trucker line? Or any business? That's because in their "business", they don't have to know anything about business, or anything worthwhile. What a scam.

They won't, of course, because the Teamsters are nothing but a parasite organization that feeds off the blood ($) of companies and the employees they represent, promising a "better life" and "protection" to one side, while trying to assume the duties of the other side.

Call me a "company man" all you want. My paycheck says "Bombardier" on it, not "James Hoffa, Jr."

If you don't like it, here's your invitation to not let the door hit your fat @$$ on the way out.

XPDriver, you don't even work here, so STFU.

Can you answer this honestly? Would you rather make what we make at Flex, or make what NJA makes and get their schedule.

 

[Col. Angus]

A tree falling in the woods?

Fellow Pilots,

I am pleased to see that the Unionized Pilots are ignoring this thread. If a union buster spouted FUD in the woods, would anyone hear it?

The Flight Options pilots are gone building the required unity to obtain parity with their counterparts, and the NetJets pilots are probably enjoying their time off.

Cliffs note reality:

Based on the 2004 rejected contract proposal, a pilot with my seniority at NJA would be making 69K a year with two 14 day vacations a year. Based on the renegotiated contract ratified in November, it's now >100K (and counting due to OT) with three 28 day periods off per year for vacation.

Full details:

Our elected Union Executive board earns $0 from the pilots in salary (as they wrote Local Union bylaws that were later ratified by the pilots that give NO salary to elected union leaders). It’s an ALL VOLUNTEER effort. 100% of the Local Union funds go back to the pilots in the form of representation, contract administration, and advocacy efforts.

This past Wednesday the Chairman of NetJets spoke to a recurrent ground school and stated that due to increased productivity and reduced sell-offs we are making money in the US as of the second quarter. His message was one of thanks and gratitude. Much of the turnaround is due to the 40+ pilots that NJA brings to CMH each month to work on partnership programs to affect the turnaround and success of the company they work for.

Union busters and dissidents please polish your turds all you want and fill our punchbowls with them. Our pilots at NJA will be focusing on making money for themselves and their company and enjoying time off, while our Flight Options pilots will be patiently waiting to help turn things around once management demonstrates they get the message that pilots are in fact professionals that are not in fact priced out at "a dime a dozen" and are worth some base-line respect. We will know they understand when they bargain in good faith for industry standard wages and compensation in exchange for progressive dispute resolution and an organized force of highly motivated partners.

A line has been drawn in the sand and pilots and management alike need to decide which side they are on. If professional union pilots in the fractional industry are given the support and respect of management then we will stand shoulder-to-shoulder for mutual success. If a pilot truly believes that he is a commodity and they continue to fail to organize and pull together, then we have no choice to make it a priority to crush the company they work for so that unified pilots and progressive managements can succeed together.

Besides, what is everyone doing reading threads like this? Shouldn’t managers be concentrating on the safety and success of the organization? Shouldn’t pilots be working to halt the slide of their profession and be speaking to other pilots about what it really means to have strong representation, a contract featuring ADR-style administration, and professional advocacy for pilot concerns?

So yes, if Union Busting FUD and the above response are shouted in the woods, would anyone hear it? The movers and shakers are out conquering the industry while us discovering this thread by accident is another ten minutes of our lives we can never get back. *YAWN*

Sincerely,

Col. Angus
On behalf of Local 1108 Pilots
Representing 85% of US-based Fractional Pilots

 

[xpdriver]

If the Teamsters are so smart, then why don't they start their own fractional? Or trucker line? Or any business? That's because in their "business", they don't have to know anything about business, or anything worthwhile. What a scam.

They won't, of course, because the Teamsters are nothing but a parasite organization that feeds off the blood ($) of companies and the employees they represent, promising a "better life" and "protection" to one side, while trying to assume the duties of the other side.

Call me a "company man" all you want. My paycheck says "Bombardier" on it, not "James Hoffa, Jr."

If you don't like it, here's your invitation to not let the door hit your fat @$$ on the way out.

XPDriver, you don't even work here, so STFU.

OK, first my pay check does not say hoffa either but it is bigger because of hoffa and the pilots at my company. So why doesn't the teamsters start a frac,because the same reason Bombardier doesn't start a furniture business. Thats not what they do. Mark my words,one day you are going to FU then you will have no one to back you up. Every pilot messes up once in awhile. Are you going to call yourself a company man when an owner says to flex,I don't like him ,so him or my 5 million dollars,see ya at Kroger dude. PROTECTION is worth every nickle I pay IBT... So I will STFU because sometimes you just can't fix stupid.

 

[walshsfly]

Are you a member of a gym? Do they give you free dues for 5 years then 5 dollars a month? Answer:NO Hey ding dong, It takes money to run an organization,nothing in life is free,didn't someone in your life teach you that. The reason your pay scale sucked at your last job,is not because the UNION set the rates,its because guys like you and others that did not stand up and demand better pay and benefits. By the way it cost me about 550 a year to get a six figure salary. I'm no rocket surgeon,but that is a pretty good return on my money.

Wow a personal attack, must have struck a nerve. Anything I pay money to I expect to get a full return if I am not satisfied, or for service a free trial at the least. That’s the way it should be. I also already paid my money for my education my return is my pay check. I shouldn’t have to invest more money to make that check. And you don't know me don't make an assumption that I didn't stand up for better pay and QOL issues, I just had to fight two battles for it, the union and the company.

 

[hammer2]

All this union talk is giving me a head ache. Flex is a very very good job, union or no union. We have our faults as every company does. For those who want a union think of this. Bombardier will sell us. We may lose what has made us a success, the product. We can't stand up against NJA flying beachjets or CE-500s. If you want to take that chance, vote the union in. If things are that bad at Flex, lets hear what bothering everybody? I don't see one thing on this thread that justifies a union

 

[dime line]

Hey Hammmer were you working at FLex about 5 years ago when they laid off a bunch of pilots out of seniority, and the suprise new 7 and 3 schedule (or something along those lines) I remember Flex was the worst job in the Fractional Industry.

 

[gunfyter]

This past Wednesday the Chairman of NetJets spoke to a recurrent ground school and stated that due to increased productivity and reduced sell-offs we are making money in the US as of the second quarter. His message was one of thanks and gratitude. Much of the turnaround is due to the 40+ pilots that NJA brings to CMH each month to work on partnership programs to affect the turnaround and success of the company they work for.




​

Holy crap. Don't let Publishers or PilotYip read that. They might go into shock!

Whhhooopsss! You mean you can pay pilots Industry salaries and make a profit? A unionized pilot force with those onerous work rules that must be obeyed? How can this be true?

Now is Flexjet management any dumber than NJ management. Couldn't they do the same?

 

[vixin]

Nope they are smarter. Because they get the same type of work out of the pilots and treat them like dirt. Less money, less time off and our health insurance sucks now. No protection for the pilots. No real defined rest rules. We are basically an on call charter company. What can a union do for you?

Hey walsh you say you need a return on your investment. Pay union dues and get the NJ contract. More time off, more money, better health care, protection from management. Just to name a few. Do you think that is enough of a return for union dues? How long have you been at Flex? Not long I would say. Talk to the ones that have been around for a while. Where are you Steve G. Start the union bash?

I for one havent really been for or against a union, but Flex management needs to be stopped now. They take and change rules without any input from the crews. If they want to change it they will. The CAB is just a show for the pilots. The CAB members are more on managements side anyway.

 

[Cautious Belly]

Can you answer this honestly? Would you rather make what we make at Flex, or make what NJA makes and get their schedule.

Sure thing, el raton. An honest question deserves an honest answer.

I'll always take more money. I'm not a dumba--. I just think that the way to get more money is by continuing to be the best fractional service provider. What's good for the business is good for the crewmembers. Trying to twist management's arm for a few bucks and causing a whole lot of drama in the process ain't my style.

As far as the "protection" racket goes, I'm not afraid of going to training. I'm confident in my abilities. I know I don't suck. And if someday, I do suck, then I need to find another line of work. I'm not for any organization whose stated purpose is to protect idiots who need to get canned. And if you think we need other kinds of "protection", the last time I screwed up I called RH, told him what happened, and he laughed about it and said, direct quote: "Bet you won't do that again."

As far as their schedule, I'm not a big fan of 7/7, to tell the truth. I like going out for 4 days, and sometimes out for 6. I get plenty of 5-off periods too. With as many shortcomings as PBS has, I'm still able to get some important events off. How much control can I really expect? Should everyone be able to write their own schedule down to the day?

Biggest problem with having the Teamsters here, is that the biggest union supporters I've run into are a bunch of anger-heads who have never been happy anywhere, at any job, and who think that RH pi$$e$ in their froot-loops every day just to make them miserable. Sorry, if I want to join an organization run by a bunch of miserable quasi-socialist bastards, I'll join the Democrats.

 

[Cautious Belly]

Nope they are smarter. Because they get the same type of work out of the pilots and treat them like dirt. Less money, less time off and our health insurance sucks now. No protection for the pilots. No real defined rest rules.

Just because you don't understand rest rules doesn't mean they don't exist.

We are basically an on call charter company.

So, the Teamsters is going to take over and re-formulate the entire business so that you know your trips 3 weeks ahead of time? Get real. Go get that airline job you've always dreamed of. Just don't let the door hit your fat ass on the way out.

...The CAB is just a show for the pilots. The CAB members are more on managements side anyway.

Case in point. Someone who needs "protection from management" must either be a half-assed pilot or someone with a guilty conscience.

And you're saying that no matter who is selected to the CAB is a management stooge? So if you were elected, you'd just be another management stooge? Sorry, doesn't pass the logic test.

 

[vixin]

Just because you don't understand rest rules doesn't mean they don't exist.

I understand them just fine. I also understand how Flex violates them EVERYDAY with its own interpretation of rest rules. Sure you can refuse the phone call and get fired the second time you do it.

So, the Teamsters is going to take over and re-formulate the entire business so that you know your trips 3 weeks ahead of time? Get real. Go get that airline job you've always dreamed of. Just don't let the door hit your fat ass on the way out.

Never said I wanted to go to an airline. NJ seems to be able to figure this out. Who knows maybe the union helped NJ do that. I do like how you put me down though. Typical for the Flex office boy.

Case in point. Someone who needs "protection from management" must either be a half-assed pilot or someone with a guilty conscience.

My case in point is the rest rules. Try not answering that phone in the middle of the night. See what happens next. Pretty darn good at the job and not a guilty conscience. I do belive they give some the benefit of the doubt. Just not the ones they want to get rid of. ie: Furloughing out of seniority. I feel pretty good about my security. But its not just about me it is about our fellow crew members. Let it come to a vote and let the majority speak.

And you're saying that no matter who is selected to the CAB is a management stooge? So if you were elected, you'd just be another management stooge? Sorry, doesn't pass the logic test.

Look at the stooges on the board now. If they werent stooges before they become ones pretty quick. The CAB is a joke.